How to mic a tap dancer???

[thedoner]

I was just watching "The Jammy's" live from MSG, There was a performance by Bela Fleck and the Flecktones which featured Savion Glover tap dancing on a platform. I was looking closely, but didn't see any mics at all, which got me wondering about how he was being captured. My guess was with shotguns, or perhaps PZM's (but again, none were visible) What do you think? How would you get a tap dancer to cut though a full band mix in a live situation?
-GD

[goldendye]

I know that sometimes they use Sennheiser MKE2 or DPA Miniature Capsuls. I have here a show where I put 2 MKE2 in a hole with the diameter of the MKE in the floor. it works perfect and you see nothing

[huub]

I have had situations with radio mics in/ near the shoe, but also, guess what: lip synching.. (Feet synching rather

[jude]

ive used Beta 91's taped under the stage (capsule towards the floor boards) with really good results. it was for broadcast and live audience mix

[Thomas W. Bethe]

You can use a contact microphone, the same type as you would use on a guitar. We did a folk show where the performer did a clog dance on a piece of plywood and he used a contact microphone with a transformer adapter for the feed. It worked well.

You can read about the performer, John Hartford, and the plywood setup here John Hartford - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Dave Slevin]

Backing tracks!!

[dangoudie]

I did a day's work at a London dance school recording their 'tappers'.
The tracks were then used in their live performance through the PA and the tappers effectively mimed as their tapping wasn't loud enough on the stage.
Could have been funny if they fell over but the tapping continued.

As it was a contrived they were standing still so a spaced pair of U87s worked very well. If they were running about then it would be harder.

[Jim vanBergen]

I have recorded Savion Glover on several occasions. He's a helluva talent.

For mics, he follows the methods that were developed by Gregory Hines, his primary mentor, by using a specialized floor that has 16 contact mics (Barcus Berry's) in the deck wired into eight channels by linking the upstage and downstage elements together. This allows Savion to have VERY loud tap monitors, as the goal is always to have "taps like thunder" which was his phrase on his Broadway show "Noise/Funk" in which all tappers wore a Sennheiser SK50 transmitter with two MKE-2 elements y'd together, one running down each leg.

Savion likes using the floor because sonically, it can get a LOT louder, it is consistent, it allows for even and accurate response for 2-8 people tapping together, and has a wide dynamic range...not to mention that it's easier for him to dance on!

Just to be certain, he is a LIVE guy and would not want to use tracks, as they allow for no improvisation, which is his true love. Like the jammy's, he adores jazz and the collaborative improvisation it fosters, and his performances are every bit for himself and the band to dig jamming together and riffing off one another, more so than the audience. While the Rockette's have used tracks in the past for some of their shows, Savion is NOT going to tap to a track because he would never, ever think of using the same choreography from show to show. He might use a similar step or sequence, but that's it.

Hope this helps.

[MidasHatesGold]

I toured with "Magic of the Dance" and they used to mic their shoes with mke-2 too(with belt packs). but only the soli dancers...the group was tracked.

regards

[rmx16]

Originally Posted by thedoner

I was just watching "The Jammy's" live from MSG, There was a performance by Bela Fleck and the Flecktones which featured Savion Glover tap dancing on a platform. I was looking closely, but didn't see any mics at all, which got me wondering about how he was being captured. My guess was with shotguns, or perhaps PZM's (but again, none were visible) What do you think? How would you get a tap dancer to cut though a full band mix in a live situation?
-GD

When I did "Burn The Floor" the principal dancers were mic'd with MK's. But the rest of the show was track (Radar I believe)

Peace

[slaphappygarry]

Tap is pretty loud!

Its like a cowbell or tambourine. I would bet they didn't need anything (or even that close) for it to pick up on EVERYTHING else...

That said, if it was me a boundary mic would be a good starting place...

G

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

We did a folk show where the performer did a clog dance on a piece of plywood and he used a contact microphone with a transformer adapter for the feed. It worked well.

You can read about the performer, John Hartford, and the plywood setup here John Hartford - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Showoff!!

OK, I'm just jealous (big fan of John's).

[thedoner]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

I have recorded Savion Glover on several occasions. He's a helluva talent.

For mics, he follows the methods that were developed by Gregory Hines, his primary mentor, by using a specialized floor that has 16 contact mics (Barcus Berry's) in the deck wired into eight channels by linking the upstage and downstage elements together. This allows Savion to have VERY loud tap monitors, as the goal is always to have "taps like thunder" which was his phrase on his Broadway show "Noise/Funk" in which all tappers wore a Sennheiser SK50 transmitter with two MKE-2 elements y'd together, one running down each leg.

Savion likes using the floor because sonically, it can get a LOT louder, it is consistent, it allows for even and accurate response for 2-8 people tapping together, and has a wide dynamic range...not to mention that it's easier for him to dance on!

Just to be certain, he is a LIVE guy and would not want to use tracks, as they allow for no improvisation, which is his true love. Like the jammy's, he adores jazz and the collaborative improvisation it fosters, and his performances are every bit for himself and the band to dig jamming together and riffing off one another, more so than the audience. While the Rockette's have used tracks in the past for some of their shows, Savion is NOT going to tap to a track because he would never, ever think of using the same choreography from show to show. He might use a similar step or sequence, but that's it.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the responses guys!
It seems that some very creative methods have been employed to accomplish this.
I wonder if the platform he was on was his own special one, pre mic'd and wired as Jim described?
It never occurred to me that he might be foot-syncing. But given the context, I seriously doubt he was. At one point he was doing a call and response with Futureman (Bela's SynthAxe-drum thingy player) that was clearly improvised.
Peace,
-GD

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by thedoner

I wonder if the platform he was on was his own special one, pre mic'd and wired as Jim described?

I know that Savion has two decks that he keeps in storage, and they are shipped to his performance venues just like any player sends an instrument.

[Remoteness]

This is exactly correct.

I've also worked with him and he provided us with his special floor board as described below.

The cat is a killer performer to say the least.

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

I have recorded Savion Glover on several occasions. He's a helluva talent.

For mics, he follows the methods that were developed by Gregory Hines, his primary mentor, by using a specialized floor that has 16 contact mics (Barcus Berry's) in the deck wired into eight channels by linking the upstage and downstage elements together. This allows Savion to have VERY loud tap monitors, as the goal is always to have "taps like thunder" which was his phrase on his Broadway show "Noise/Funk" in which all tappers wore a Sennheiser SK50 transmitter with two MKE-2 elements y'd together, one running down each leg.

Savion likes using the floor because sonically, it can get a LOT louder, it is consistent, it allows for even and accurate response for 2-8 people tapping together, and has a wide dynamic range...not to mention that it's easier for him to dance on!

Just to be certain, he is a LIVE guy and would not want to use tracks, as they allow for no improvisation, which is his true love. Like the jammy's, he adores jazz and the collaborative improvisation it fosters, and his performances are every bit for himself and the band to dig jamming together and riffing off one another, more so than the audience. While the Rockette's have used tracks in the past for some of their shows, Savion is NOT going to tap to a track because he would never, ever think of using the same choreography from show to show. He might use a similar step or sequence, but that's it.

Hope this helps.

[thedoner]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

I know that Savion has two decks that he keeps in storage, and they are shipped to his performance venues just like any player sends an instrument.

Bingo! After all, it's not like he could expect there to be a tap platform as part of a standard backline

[Remoteness]

I would advance the show to make sure everything is everything...

Still have your back up plan ready to roll if necessary.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Someone mentioned Savion Glover. I recently was asked to do a noise reduction on a multitrack recording that was done of one of his concerts. His monitor speakers got into all of the recording microphones and the whole recording sounded like a giant tap dance with music accompaniment. I was unable to get rid of his monitor speakers and still have the music unaltered. Too bad.

I understand from the person who did the concert recording that his monitors were so loud that people in the first couple of rows left part way though the concert as they could no longer stand the dB levels. I know he wants to be heard but too much is still too much.

[Jim vanBergen]

Let me give you an example of Savion's monitor requirements:
4-6 slant wedges across the front
2 large sidefills
four mid-highs on stands at the four corners of the platform; all cranked up quite loudly.

The problem you experienced is no shock to anyone.

The other thing with Savion, many times I have have presented him with tracks and his response is: "the recording great, the band's performances are not so great".

The miking techniques for his band "The Others" have to be very specific to get clean isolation. Sorry you experienced a recording with zero consideration!

Best,

JvB

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

Someone mentioned Savion Glover. I recently was asked to do a noise reduction on a multitrack recording that was done of one of his concerts. His monitor speakers got into all of the recording microphones and the whole recording sounded like a giant tap dance with music accompaniment. I was unable to get rid of his monitor speakers and still have the music unaltered. Too bad.

I understand from the person who did the concert recording that his monitors were so loud that people in the first couple of rows left part way though the concert as they could no longer stand the dB levels. I know he wants to be heard but too much is still too much.

[Fuzzy Logic]

is there ever a time when the producer or engineer can say no way to the over blown monitor rig?

man, if youre doing a recording for future release isnt the recording more important?

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Logic

is there ever a time when the producer or engineer can say no way to the over blown monitor rig?

man, if youre doing a recording for future release isnt the recording more important?

Savion IS his own producer. tutt It's a tough position to be in. Challenging, but not impossible. It's no worse than many other rock bands I've worked with. Mostly about good mic & monitor positioning, and careful tuning of the entire rig. thumbsup

[Remoteness]

Recording with loud stage levels is a challenge for sure.
Proper mic & speaker placement is a plus.
But, I don't envy anyone having to deal with loud stage levels day in and day out.

[7rojo7]

If a performer doesn't dig what he's doing, no one else will either. Double system or record the monitor, if that's good, it's already been accepted as good, or doesn't live sound as good as fake

[Fuzzy Logic]

Originally Posted by 7rojo7

If a performer doesn't dig what he's doing, no one else will either. Double system or record the monitor, if that's good, it's already been accepted as good, or doesn't live sound as good as fake

very true

[Stizz]

I thought the thread was "How to mic a LAP dancer"...