using Y insert cable for recording purposes

[cioto]

Hi
I've bought on ebay a 24 channel jack multicore. It was advertised as 24 balanced jack symmetric multicore, but it is an insert multicore: 24 stereo connectors on one side, 48 mono connectors on the other side.

I'd like to use it for recording purposes: from direct out to TRS inputs in my converters.
Which end should I connect to the direct outs? Stereo or mono?
Are there signal losses with this connection (apart from the obvious unbalanced connection)?

[bishopthomas]

I think it should work that you plug the TRS end into the direct out then the TS side labeled "Send" should carry the signal to your converters. You're right, it will be unbalanced, but you shouldn't have any problems that aren't associated with using unbalanced connections.

[cioto]

thnaks!
If instead I connect the "return" to the multitrack, I'll have inverted phases?

[Corran]

If you don't have the send plugged into anything you won't have anything to return.

Well correction to myself as I read that incorrectly: The return is to send something BACK to the insert, for monitoring purposes. Therefore a return plugged into something that is supposed to receive signal will result in no sound at all!

[bishopthomas]

He's using the direct outs, not an insert point.

[Corran]

Oh whoops.

Nevermind!

[LX3]

Sounds like you need to send it back. "Not as described", so you should have a good case.

If you kept it, at best you would have to cut all the mono plugs off and solder on stereo ones. But even that might not an option, depending on how its constructed.

[cioto]

Originally Posted by Corran

The return is to send something BACK to the insert, for monitoring purposes. Therefore a return plugged into something that is supposed to receive signal will result in no sound at all!

But if the direct outs from the console are balanced, the return should carry the phase inverted signal, shouldn't it?

[LX3]

Yes, but I wouldn't like to say how nicely the cold or hot leg will behave on its own with respect to the shield. The cold may well be "impedance balanced" which (I think) would mean that there's no actual signal on the cold wire.

It's the difference between the hot and cold legs where the signal "lives". To unbalance a balanced signal you need to tie the cold to your recorder's audio ground.

In any case, it's a shame to unbalance a perfectly good balanced signal.

Is the snake is a plain 24-channel snake with some kind of "Y" at one end? If so, it should be possible to replace the 48 mono jacks with 24 stereo ones. But that would involve some work.

Isn't it easier to get it swapped for the cable you ordered? Or a refund?

(Although I know what a drag returning gear is... I've just had to return about 150m of braided sleeving because they sent me the wrong size, three preamp boards that have blown up, and two drive enclosures that turned out to be "not as advertised". Anyone want a cheap 85-pin female cable Veam including pins that I never got around to returning last year?)

[cioto]

Originally Posted by LX3

..
In any case, it's a shame to unbalance a perfectly good balanced signal.

Is the snake is a plain 24-channel snake with some kind of "Y" at one end? If so, it should be possible to replace the 48 mono jacks with 24 stereo ones. But that would involve some work.

I totally agree, and yes, it has the "Y" at one end, so I can couple the send and return in one single TRS connector.

Do you believe the direct outs on most consoles are balanced?

Originally Posted by LX3

..
Isn't it easier to get it swapped for the cable you ordered? Or a refund?

Unfortunately no, I live in Italy and bought from Germany.
The strange thing is that shipping Germany -> Italy is 19€, while shipping Italy -> Germany is at least the double, And I paid the cable just 70€, so I think I'll proceed with the mono unsoldering - TRS resoldering.

many thanks!

[Remoteness]

Keep in mind that console insert points are not wired all alike.
Some consoles send on the tip and others send on the ring, et cetera, etc.
Most insert snakes have a color code instead of the send/return markings.
If you're going to use it as a regular unbalanced snake make sure you're using the right point (tip or ring depending on the desk) to guarantee you're unbalanced connections are in phase.

It's too bad you cannot return the snake and get what you really need.

[cioto]

Thanks for your reply Steve, but I use direct out (when I do not split the signals).
I was wondering if direct outs are balanced or not.

[Remoteness]

It really depends on the desk you're working with.

Give us a list of consoles you use and we will help you sort it out.

[cioto]

mainly allen heat gl 2400

[cioto]

I found gl2400 has balanced direct out so I will try to modify the cable.
I used a tester and verified that the stereo input number "n" is connected in this way with the 2 mono "n" jack:

- tip of stereo input to tip of one mono jack
- ring of stereo input to tip of the other mono jack
- sleve of stereo input to sleve of both the mono jacks.

SO I believe I can couple the 2 mono jacks in a single stereo/balanced TRS jack, to get a plain 24 way BALANCED TRS jack loom.

Do you believe I am right?

[tnjazz]

Yes.

Cut off all the ends on the 48 side. Tie the two grounds from each channel's cable together and you should have hot, cold and a combined ground. Wire that to a TRS jack.

It might look a little odd because you'll have 2 "cables" going into each connector on that one end of the snake but it should work just fine for turning it back into a balanced cable.

thumbsup

[cioto]

many thanks for your confirmation, yes it will have double (mini)cable for each TRS connector.
I hope I will finish soldering in the next 3 years