Church bell sample/recording

[Pete G]

Came across some knowledgeable threads in a couple of Church Bell Recording threads in this forum, and I hope some of you might be able to advise on the following:
A friend from a local church wants to replace their unused church bell with amplified samples (yes I know, the real bell would be far superior) So I said I'd look into it. I don't know if it's worth recording the actual bell, as he wants a few different pitches to suit the nature of various events. He showed me a couple of sample CDs - terrible sound, distorted and most single chimes seem to be poorly recorded in my ignorant opinion.
So, my questions are:
1. Can anyone recommend a quality source of individual bell sounds which could be edited, then broadcast from CD through a belfry PA system? and
2. Do you think it's worth trying to record this bell (very inaccessible) and use its sound?
3. If you're going to broadcast a bell sample over a PA from a high belfry, would it be better to use a close mic or on-the-ground mic source.

Thanks in advance

Pete G

[NorseHorse]

Compared to buying a whole bunch of bells, playing amplified samples can be much more affordable. It can also give you some flexibility that may avoid legal trouble.

There was a church in the Northern Virginia area a few years ago that was in a lawsuit with the surrounding neighborhoood because of it's beautiful new set of REAL bells. Not only did the bells cost a fortune, but so did the lawyers! I tried to find an archived news article on the issue, but I couldn't find one. In the end, they might not have even be allowed to use the bells at all! At least you can control the volume with electric bells. Even making the morning bells quieter than the rest if you want, I suppose.

Greek priest given suspended sentence for loud bell
Blagovest Bells— San Francisco Judge Dismisses Suit Against Bells
Maybe this was the one I'm refering too. It's a Maryland church: St. Elizabeth expected to toll bells twice daily

[Jim vanBergen]

Hi Pete!

I am from a long line of bellmakers, so perhaps I can put my $0.02 to slightly better use on this thread.

While no bells are still cast by hand in the USA, there are three or four companies selling them in the USA. Every company that sells bells also has a "lower cost" sampled version. In the old days, they were cassette tape recordings of very expensive digital samples, or amplified tubular chimes going thru a set of horns located in a bellfry. The advent of digital sampling made this more popular for a while, though ultimately people did realize that the digitized "sound of bells" is not as pleasing to the ear as the real thing. But some churches can afford 5k, and some can afford 500k to spend on an instrument, so you know where each one lands.

As far as sampling goes: bells are an inherently minor-tuned instrument that are tuned up to 12 harmonics after being cast for a specific note. When the Synclavier was introduced, several manufacturers tried sampling bells and found that while you could sample one bell well, it would not translate with pitch shifting without major problems in the harmonic structure that are obvious to the common listener, let alone the experienced ear.

The better samples that were made were done in Belgium by a company who invested considerable time and funds to the matter. I attended a final session in the 80's- these bells had been sampled in a huge studio that was customized to approach a very dead, anechoic space, and 36 specific notes were brought in by truck and sampled. Three of the lowest notes were sampled onsite in the manufacturer's factory late at night to get some isolation and proximity, as the heaviest bells are multiple tons and are impossible to move easily. By sampling 39 bells, they were able to generate a sample library to represent a 48-bell carrillon, which is about the biggest you find in the world- four full octaves.

While this was the finest sample I had heard to date, they were by no means perfect. I hear imperfections, and as I recorded custom songs for users, I heard more and more places where a balance in a chord or dissonance was obvious.

However: for a simple, single note? You should be able to find this somewhat easily, either by DIY with a very, very good recording, or by contacting one of the companies who are still in business for this type of work.

Big issues to consider once you are past the sample: the system design, controlling the playback system, deciding if the instrument will play both inside and or outside and how that is switched, monitoring the outdoor system from indoors and locking out non-administrators who might want to bring in a sample of a pipe organ next time.

Hope this helps!

Jim van Bergen
(who still has a bell cast in 1576 from an ancestor!)

[Pete G]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm amazed there's people still out there casting bells! I've found some ok samples on the net, and am off to hear the bell in action to see if I think it's worth recording it.
cheers

pg