Grace SpaceBar

[John Willett]

Grace SpaceBar

Mine arrived today.

I'm the first in the UK

I got the 30/66 set with two extra mounts (for ORTF + omni outriggers) and the bag (bag to follow).

Superb bit of engineering and the wonderful Grace Design made me a Euro version with standard 3/8" Whit. mounting threads instead of the horrible American 5/8" threads.

At last - a well engineered bar that you can set accurate distances and angles - and easily repeatable.

[mathieujm]

Superb thumbsup

But not cheap I think ?

For ORTF, I would prefer some vertical one... but with all the graduations.

JMM

[Don S]

VERY slutty! It's next on my list!

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by mathieujm

Superb thumbsup

But not cheap I think ?

But not expensive either - about the same price as bars from DPA, Gefell, etc..

Originally Posted by mathieujm

For ORTF, I would prefer some vertical one... but with all the graduations.

Each SpaceBar is delivered complete with a tall mount so you can do XY or ORTF where the mics cross over each other:-

[rumleymusic]

Who would have thought a space bar would be so damned cool?

Couldn't justify spending that much though. My Atlas works just fine.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

Who would have thought a space bar would be so damned cool?

Couldn't justify spending that much though. My Atlas works just fine.

The thing that really swung it for me was the accurate distance and angle markings which makes, for example, accurate ORTF setting up quick, easy, accurate and repeatable.

[edwinhurwitz]

I stopped by Grace without any intention of walking away with anything and Eben showed it to me. As soon as I touched it, I knew I had to have one! They really just feel great. I've used a bunch of pretty crappy contraptions for my mics (and apparently Mike did too, hence the Spacebar) and this really feels like a fine camera ballhead. It also feels like it will hold up to some serious road work.


It's nice to have those guys in town!
Edwin

[rumleymusic]

I stopped by Grace without any intention of walking away with anything and Eben showed it to me. As soon as I touched it, I knew I had to have one! They really just feel great. I've used a bunch of pretty crappy contraptions for my mics (and apparently Mike did too, hence the Spacebar) and this really feels like a fine camera ballhead. It also feels like it will hold up to some serious road work.

Stop it, you're making me want to buy one. tutt

I would like to find a good hanging adapter for a space bar. There are several single mic hangers out there but very few options other than clever improvising, to hang a bar safely. Maybe you can stop by Grace and tell them to make something like that.

[Adebar]

How much is the one from Grace?

I´ve one for 160 €. It is even wider with 80 cm.
Sorry for hijacking.

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

Stop it, you're making me want to buy one. tutt

I would like to find a good hanging adapter for a space bar. There are several single mic hangers out there but very few options other than clever improvising, to hang a bar safely. Maybe you can stop by Grace and tell them to make something like that.

I bet they already have!

Edwin

[Corran]

Wow, looked it up on Grace's website. That's fantastically expensive.




Not that I don't want one but come on. I really think someone can design an ergonomic and cost-effective multi-mic holder for the rest of us. Sabra-Som is close but still not perfect.

[joelpatterson]

It may be fantastically expensive, but it is very graceful.

[Karl Jackson]

Nice design! No way in the world I would ever spend that much on a stereo bar though. Now if someone could design a micrometer adjustment for musicians to keep them accurately positioned, maybe that would be worth a few bucks.

kj

[John Willett]

These are the reasons the Grace SpaceBar is so good:-

The central boss also has marked tilt angles (can't find a pic., though).

[James Lehmann]

Very interesting.

I was already looking at the AEA spacers - will see how the Graces stack up, especially if they do a Euro 3/8" version.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by James Lehmann

- will see how the Graces stack up, especially if they do a Euro 3/8" version.

Definitely - yes - they did a 3/8" version for me.

[fifthcircle]

When I saw the Grace stereo bars at AES, I instantly though I needed one. Now they are out, I need to just plunk down the cash... They are worth every cent if you need to be able to repeat setting. If you don't care about your setups from day to day, then use the cheaper alternatives.

--Ben

[BLP]

Wow, these do look very nice indeed! Not really that expensive, though, when you compare them to other top-of-the-line stereo bars (the AEA stuff, the Schoeps UMS 20 is like $300 street price). The AEA, however, can be mounted vertically as well to accommodate Blumlein, ribbon mics and XY with LDCs... I don't know if that's a feature I'd be willing to trade.

That being said, I kinda want one anyways...

[Karl Jackson]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

If you don't care about your setups from day to day, then use the cheaper alternatives.

--Ben

That's a good one. Wonder if that would work on my wife.

"Honey, I really care about getting to work on time, so I'm going to need to buy a Jag XK."

kj

[aracu]

It looks like it could be modified by firmly attaching a .2810 carbon fiber tube to each side, combined with mic clip parts from sabra som trees, to make a long version for wider spaced omnis.

[mathieujm]

John, could you explain how you measure the distance between the capsules within this bar in ORTF ?

JMM

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by mathieujm

John, could you explain how you measure the distance between the capsules within this bar in ORTF ?

I will use a small T-square so I can read off the distance bar with the end of the bar under the capsule.

I did suggest to Grace that this would be a good little thing to add to the kit................

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Are the markings engraved or just silk screened on it is hard to tell from the picture?

The reason I asked is that silk screening has a bad habit of wearing off and if you are paying that much for the bar with markings and the markings go away you are left with a couple of pieces of black anodized aluminum.

Just wondering???

[0VU]

Originally Posted by John Willett

The thing that really swung it for me was the accurate distance and angle markings which makes, for example, accurate ORTF setting up quick, easy, accurate and repeatable.

But still, if you already happen to have some Schoeps UMS20 bars, and some Schoeps mics to put in them, they're far, far quicker, accurately and repeatably to set up for ORTF. Line up the appropriate coloured dots (which mark detented positions) with the white lines, click the mics into the holders with the engraved "SCHOEPS" in the logo underlined by the edge of the mic clip, tilt the individual clips to take care or the height offset and Bob's your uncle. Takes about 20 seconds or less.

You can use other mics, even those funny baby Sennheiser things, just as quickly if you mark the mics with an appropriate point to get the ORTF capsule separation. For sensible pencil mics in the 20mm or smaller diameter it's still the quickest way to set the spacing and angle for ORTF (unless you have dedicated mounts for specific mics/setups).

Where the Grace bars interest me is in the omni+subcardioid array discussed in another thread. The detailed markings (assuming that they don't rub off!) on the SpaceBars should make it easier to position and keep notes on various setups as I play with them. I've asked whether they can make a wider bar than 660mm as I often use spacings larger than this but apparently it's not possible with the materials/machining methods they're currently using. However, they said I should stay in touch as it's possible that they may have another solution in the not too distant future. In the meantime, the existing bars do look very nice.

[tamasdragon]

Originally Posted by Adebar

How much is the one from Grace?

I´ve one for 160 €. It is even wider with 80 cm.
Sorry for hijacking.

Where can I buy one?
TD

[David Spearritt]

Originally Posted by tamasdragon

Where can I buy one?
TD

Purchase Grace Design Spacebar

[Angus]

Grace say that the current 24" bar is as long as is practical using the current design. I would agree since I find that the bar bends quite noticeably if LDC mics are positioned towards the ends. They say they will soon release a longer bar but with a different, tubular, design. Also, as a consequence of using the different bar design, the current microphone holders will not attach to the new bar - additional ones will be needed. BTW, the markings are engraved.

As an aside, does anyone else find this idea slightly amusing that only using the Spacebar can one accurately and easily duplicate microphone placement? As undeniably slick as their new bar is, before I got a Spacebar, I was able to obtain all the same measurements - including degree of angle rotation from horizontal - using an AEA bar and a protractor.

[0VU]

Originally Posted by Angus

Grace say that the current 24" bar is as long as is practical using the current design. I would agree since I find that the bar bends quite noticeably if LDC mics are positioned towards the ends. They say they will soon release a longer bar but with a different, tubular, design. Also, as a consequence of using the different bar design, the current microphone holders will not attach to the new bar - additional ones will be needed. BTW, the markings are engraved.

That's what I was told. I'm only planning to use it for smaller mics as, if I need to setup LDCs at wider spacings, I use an AEA bar or some other heavier bar(s) that I had made locally.

As an aside, does anyone else find this idea slightly amusing that only using the Spacebar can one accurately and easily duplicate microphone placement? As undeniably slick as their new bar is, before I got a Spacebar, I was able to obtain all the same measurements - including degree of angle rotation from horizontal - using an AEA bar and a protractor.

I don't think that anyone said "that only using the Spacebar can one accurately and easily duplicate microphone placement", just that it makes this easier to achieve, though for some configurations there are still better solutions. I currently use bars from AEA, Schoeps, DPA and a few others but none has markings as detailed as the SpaceBar. For ORTF, Schoeps (imo) is still quicker, for DPA mics in spaced pairs, their own bars balance very nicely when hanging, for larger spacings and flexible multi mic configurations, AEA (or Schoeps) are very good. For setting up spaced pairs (obviously within the limitations of bar length) and accurately reading/repeating the settings, without needing protractors, or other extra things to forget, the SpaceBar is a very neat solution.

[Adebar]

I´ve one for 160 €. It is even wider with 80 cm.

Originally Posted by tamasdragon

Where can I buy one?
TD

We made a little series and sell it directly to collegues, that´s why the price is so low.
just send me a mail to info@adebar-acoustics.de

The bar is made of black anodisiced aluminium and the scale is laser engraved in cm. So far we made 60 cm and 80 cm bars.

Many studios and Tonmeisters in Germany use it already, public broadcasters included.

[tamasdragon]

Originally Posted by Adebar

We made a little series and sell it directly to collegues, that´s why the price is so low.
just send me a mail to info@adebar-acoustics.de

The bar is made of black anodisiced aluminium and the scale is laser engraved in cm. So far we made 60 cm and 80 cm bars.

Many studios and Tonmeisters in Germany use it already, public broadcasters included.

Thank you. I saved this information and will contact you as soon as Hungary will stabilize our huf against euro.
Tamas Dragon