Steinberg MR816X vs TC Konnekt 48 vs Apogee Ensemble

[mrsteaks]

There's been a lot of discussion on this forum recently about the TC Konnekt 48. Steinberg has a similar (seemingly) interface in the MR816X/CSX. How do you suppose these two interfaces compare, not by feature set (which seem pretty similar), but by sound? How good are the converters? Do they approach the Apogee Ensemble converters? Are they suitable for classical recording?

I've already bought an Ensemble because I use a MacBook Pro with Logic Express 8 and the Ensemble is designed to work with a Mac. Also, the Apogee converters are fairly well regarded. It also has a "stand alone" mode, which I found attractive and useful for my purposes. Now, I know they aren't Mytek or Prism level, but I suspect they'll be a bit better than the converters in my HD24XR (the Ensemble pres aren't bad either, from what I've heard in demos). Do you suppose I could have saved some moolla and done just as well by buying either the Steinberg or the TC Konnekt?

Thirty questions in one, but I'm looking forward to the discussion. Thanks, gentlemen!

[desotoslo]

Hey ! I've been in this exact same search.

I ended up going with an Echo Audiofire8. Converters are supposedly way beyond their asking price, and the drivers are very stable. (this all from hearsay on gearslutz... I should have the unit in a few days, and I'll update when I get it with some hard facts.)

But I do feel I researched the shit out of this question.

The reason I didn't go with Ensemble is that it will lose functionality along with the computer if the computer crashes (if for example you have a digital feed running out the back to a backup recorder). If it's in standalone mode, obviously it will be fine... but then you don't have a computer hooked up to it (duh).

Studiokonnekt and Audiofire will purportedly still pump out good signal despite a DAW or system crash. I skipped the MR816 just because in the long run, I like the fact that Echo is solely dedicated to making interfaces and converters. For whatever that's worth. (plus the Cubase thing put me off... I'm a Logic guy)

I get the impression that the SK48 is very stable for PCs, and supposedly for Mac, but personally, the history of unstable drivers left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Too bad, because it really looks like a nice unit. I also found out it's assembled in Thailand, FWIW. Don't know where the Audiofire is assembled.

I also like the fact that I can call Echo on the phone and speak to a native English speaker and ask questions. I don't think you'll get that with TC Electronic, though they have been very good about answering my email tech support questions the same day or next day. Apogee tech support is great.

The Ensemble is definitely the cream of the crop here... but that firewire thing bugged me. From all I've read about Echo, their products are SOLID. I look forward to testing and will come back with a report. thumbsup

Some thoughts!

[mljung]

Originally Posted by desotoslo

I also like the fact that I can call Echo on the phone and speak to a native English speaker and ask questions. I don't think you'll get that with TC Electronic, though they have been very good about answering my email tech support questions the same day or next day. Apogee tech support is great.

Some thoughts!

I can't understand why you [mrsteaks] consider other options than the "Ensemble" you already purchased, unless you feel it isn't good enough.!?
Anyhow I do believe the Ensemble and the Konnekt are at the same level, sound-quality wise - but since the Ensemble is a mac only, I'm sure they're more stable for mac computers.

And a short note to desotoslo's post:
I don't think you would run into problems speaking English with the Danish TC support team. Usually we are pretty decent English speakers here in DK, and I'm sure TC are aware of the problems that they would encounter if they hired support staff that didn't have good English skills.

[desotoslo]

Duly noted Mr. Jung! Yes, the emails from TC tech support have been very comprehensible.

The actual phone call overseas is more of what I am referring to... unless there is a US base of which I am unaware?

Anyway, I really wanted to go with the SK48, to be honest... I ended up going Echo just because of their excellent driver history. I bet the SK48 drivers are great now... still, I feel a bit off-put... just my gut feeling. Right or wrong, it's what I'll follow.

[mljung]

Originally Posted by desotoslo

still, I feel a bit off-put... just my gut feeling. Right or wrong, it's what I'll follow.

I understand completely, gut feeling or intuition is what I follow too! Sometimes it may mean that we exclude some things we shouldn't, but it's always the best judgment we have at our disposal...

[jnorman]

i also wound up buying an echo audiofire unit over the ensemble due to its more comprehensive feature set. the echo unit worked perfectly right out of the box on my macbook - totally stable, nice pres, no conversion issues that i was able to discern. great value. dont know the steinberg unit, but i would guess it and the TC unit are also quite nice. i think all these units are pretty much in the ball park as far as sound and quality - i would purchase based on feature set.

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by mljung

I can't understand why you [mrsteaks] consider other options than the "Ensemble" you already purchased, unless you feel it isn't good enough.!?

I'm just covering my bases. That I already own the Ensemble is really inconsequential to this post. My reason for the "comparison question" was to poll you guys about the TCK and Steinberg pieces, which look (on demo videos, anyway) as capable, decent sounding units which happen to cost a bit less than the Ensemble. Also, along the way I learned about the Echo piece, which I didn't know about. I'm quite sure I made the right choice (for my purposes) with the the Apogee, but I wanted to ensure that my research wasn't faulty.

If I was wrong, well, there is always eBay or the want ads here.

To shed a little light on my Ensemble, I configured it and use it "stand-alone". It feeds either my HD24XR or my Masterlink, and always my HHB BurnIt. It works very well in that capacity, and is completely stable. As for sound, its ADCs are a cut above the HD24XR (duh!) and the mic pres are also very, very good. All of this is IMHO, of course. I'm still learning Logic Express (I've been a Adobe/Cool Edit person for years), so I've yet to use it in "prime time" connected to my MacBook Pro for a (paying) recording.

Thanks for the responses!

[mrsteaks]

Follow up: the Ensemble went back to MF. There were some things about it I just couldn't get past. I'm back to looking.

I don't need mic pres. I would consider the Echo AudioFire 12, but I've had it with "sounds better than it's price would suggest" pieces, because in my experience they never do. It's too bad, too, because the feature set is almost exactly what I'm looking for. This piece may be an exception, but honestly, I've never found an exception!

Back to research.

[Daniel Stark]

The AF12 is great, I really like the "barebones" concept. No headphone amp, no mic pres, just good conversion and useful LED metering. More of a firewire-equipped converter than an audio interface.

However if the Apogee didn't make you happy I can only imagine a Metric Halo or Prism unit to be better on that platform. Both have mic pres however.

[David Spearritt]

SK48 sounds superb and has, quite simply, the way out in front, best designed software mixer of any of them. Compare this to the opposition:
http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/SK...Screenshot.jpg

It also has a new driver released in the last day or so (both PC and Mac), which apparently fixes some more instabilities on some machines.
TC Electronic | konnekt24D Software

I love mine, routinely doing 12 channel classical recording, very stable with Lenovo T61 lappy.

[mrsteaks]

Thanks, gentlemen! David, I've heard your work down through ages here, and it's quite simply solid. If you like your TC Konnect piece, that speaks volumes. I thought you had the 48, or was that Ben Maas?

Daniel, I am attracted by the bare bones concept of the AF12 as well, and perhaps it explains why the price is "mid range". I did get a very nice and informative email from Echo today, encouraging, so I plan to investigate the AF12 further.

I should explain that the audio performance had nothing to do with my sending the Ensemble back. It is sterling in that regard! The Maestro software, the matrix specifically, I just didn't like, and the BS "meters" on the front panel of the thing drove me nuts! A worthless light show, let me tell you. There were other things, but those were among the biggest.

Thanks again, folks...looking forward to more input!

[desotoslo]

I've been using the AF8 in the field, and I'm very happy with it. It sounds very good. Even the preamps are usable. The drivers have proven to be rock solid, not one problem. Also, I had a question about getting the digital out to work (it already was, it was my mistake to not understand how to use it correctly), and Echo tech. support was very thorough and easily accessible. (of note, they only offer tech support for one year to customers, though I don't know how stringent they are with that.)

[mrsteaks]

I'm getting positive reports from many quarters on the viability of the Echo pieces. The nearly universal response has been 1) rock solid driver stability 2) excellent build quality 3) very good conversion (Echo told me they use AKM AK4620B converters in the AF12 as of right now) 4) and great support. I may try out an AF12 to see if it meets my needs.

I'd also like to try a Konnekt 48, although the DSP feature set is something I'd seldom (if ever) use, along with the mic pres. The software interface looks really clean, though.

The RME Fireface 800 looks promising, too, but dang it, I am just not enamored with the sound I get from my HDSP 9632! And, FF800 has mic pres. The rest of the feature set is close to my needs, though.

Thanks, folks!

[audiothings]

FWIW, I chose to go with the MR816X... I wanted 8 pres, and all research suggested that these are the best pres on any interface (save for the ensemble/duet and the MH-ULN2)... I also own the Firestudio Project and I can say that the Yamaha unit is way better built.

I like the metering on the Konnekt 48. Super good! If it had 8 pres, I would have gone for it, just because of the meters.

.02,

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by audiothings

FWIW, I chose to go with the MR816X... I wanted 8 pres, and all research suggested that these are the best pres on any interface (save for the ensemble/duet and the MH-ULN2)....02,

It is nice looking unit, lots of I/O, clean design as well. What is your opinion of the A to D conversion?

[audiothings]

What is your opinion of the A to D conversion?

none whatsoever. i would have to do some very involved testing to spot differences in conversion between this and my presonus. but the pres have more gain and are noticeably cleaner and smoother than the presonus, imho. (again, no side by side testing...)

personally, i care more about build and metering than conversion quality... my signal chain (starting with the talent and ending with my ear) does not merit conversion quality considerations as far as metering is concerned the steinberg unit is obviously limited.

[mrsteaks]

An update - I will have a TC Konnekt48 here early next week for evaluation. It was a tough choice, but thanks to everyone for their input. However, it ain't over yet! If the Konnekt48 doesn't meet my needs, I'll likely bite the (expensive) bullet and go the MH route for the 2882.

Why the 48? The software interface is clean, uncluttered, intuitive. Very impressive! I don't need all of the DSP, but it's there if I ever decide to try it. The driver issues of early on seem to be worked out. It has a host of I/O, including the ability to pass 8 channels of hi-res digital via lightpipe to an outboard unit. The pres (I had no choice, they all have pres, save for the AF12) are said to be clean and quiet. The conversion is reputed to be excellent (close to Apogee quality, if not equal). The build quality looks excellent. And, the support is said to be top-notch.

The AF12 was attractive, but not quite enough functionality. Digital I/O's would have gone a long way towards acquiring one for evaluation. The Steinberg MC816X looked promising, but not quite enough. The MH 28822 just cost too much (right now), although I will not rule out acquiring one sometime down the road (unless the TCK48 just bowls me over). The Apogee Duet wasn't enough, and the Apogee Ensemble didn't have the feature set I needed.

So - we'll see...and hear!

[michkhol]

I tried the SK48 last year and I had a nasty glitch of loosing FW sync (meaning loss of any sound). It could happen any moment and I could not afford it on location. I returned the unit. I hope they fixed the (Mac) drivers by now.

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by michkhol

I tried the SK48 last year and I had a nasty glitch of loosing FW sync (meaning loss of any sound). It could happen any moment and I could not afford it on location. I returned the unit. I hope they fixed the (Mac) drivers by now.

Indeed. I am still reading of "driver issues" with the SCK48 on TCs forum and elsewhere, but there seem to be more people with no problems. It's pretty simple, really. If I have issues - any - the thing goes back!

BTW, my computer is a 17 inch MacBook Pro, 2.4GHz Core 2 duo, 2 GB RAM, and OS 10.5.6. My DAW software is Logic Express 8.

[David Spearritt]

Originally Posted by michkhol

I tried the SK48 last year and I had a nasty glitch of loosing FW sync (meaning loss of any sound). It could happen any moment and I could not afford it on location. I returned the unit. I hope they fixed the (Mac) drivers by now.

Make sure the firewire cable is healthy, a cheap cable can produce these faults as well. My SK48 has been unconditionally stable from the word go, but I have a dedicated laptop with every unnecessary device, driver and service disabled.

The most recent driver seems to be getting a lotta lurve out there.

[michkhol]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

Make sure the firewire cable is healthy, a cheap cable can produce these faults as well. My SK48 has been unconditionally stable from the word go, but I have a dedicated laptop with every unnecessary device, driver and service disabled.

The most recent driver seems to be getting a lotta lurve out there.

I never had any issues with my current FW cable and several interfaces (including Duet, Ultralite, Metric Halo, Tascam) so I don't think the cable is the issue. And the SK48 was the only one to lose FW sync with my G5, OS X 10.4.11. May be it was a defective unit, but I didn't have time to investigate this.

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

Make sure the firewire cable is healthy, a cheap cable can produce these faults as well. My SK48 has been unconditionally from the word go, but I have a dedicated laptop with every unnecessary device, driver and service disabled.

The most recent driver seems to be getting a lotta lurve out there.

David, are you using the Mac OS or Windows? You may have provided the answer all ready, but I missed it if you did. It seems the majority of issues with the SK48 seemed to stem from people running some version of OS 10. However, since the last driver/firmware update, the din has died down some. I decided to give it a try based on the assumption the driver issues were worked out.

[desotoslo]

Mr. Spearritt is using Windows.

Good luck with that, Sara Lynn. The reason I didn't choose SK48 was due to the driver issues in the past (I'm a Mac user--Windows has supposedly been much more reliable than Mac). I went Echo b/c it's solid through and through. Been using it a lot in the field and have not had one problem.

That said, I'll be curious to hear how the SK48 fares for you under OS X! Hope it works out.

addendum: man, looking at the sk48 again.. it's such a nice piece of kit... way more featured than the AF8. also twice the price, but you're getting so much. had the drivers had been good from the get go, it would have been a no-brainer for me.

David

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by desotoslo

Mr. Spearritt is using Windows.

Good luck with that, Sara Lynn. The reason I didn't choose SK48 was due to the driver issues in the past (I'm a Mac user--Windows has supposedly been much more reliable than Mac). I went Echo b/c it's solid through and through. Been using it a lot in the field and have not had one problem.

That said, I'll be curious to hear how the SK48 fares for you under OS X! Hope it works out.

addendum: man, looking at the sk48 again.. it's such a nice piece of kit... way more featured than the AF8. also twice the price, but you're getting so much. had the drivers had been good from the get go, it would have been a no-brainer for me.

David

Thank you, David! I'll keep everyone in the loop as to how well the SK48 works. Hopefully it will behave and I'll decide to keep it!

I have to say that I was very impressed with the looks, features, and Echo's support of the Echo AF12 (I received excellent responses from Echo when I inquired). If it had just had digital I/O of some sort, it would have been just about perfect for me, at least worth trying out.

[CharlesCola]

I have run 2 Echo Audiofire 12's for about two years now - I send out each channel through various outboard and mix in analogue - the converters are amazing, the drivers are perfect and daisy chaining 2 together gives 24 channels of superb sound.

Regarding their customer service... after about a year I was changing computers and managed to plug a FW cable in the wrong way round at the computer end - this fried one of the AF12's FW interfaces - I contacted ECHO and they instructed me to remove the interface board and send it to them (I am in the UK and purchased the unit from US off ebay so didn't even have a valid warranty). Within 5 days I received a working FW board. Their customer service is impeccable.

[Iggy Poop]

Originally Posted by colnbishop

I have run 2 Echo Audiofire 12's for about two years now - I send out each channel through various outboard and mix in analogue - the converters are amazing, the drivers are perfect and daisy chaining 2 together gives 24 channels of superb sound.

Regarding their customer service... after about a year I was changing computers and managed to plug a FW cable in the wrong way round at the computer end - this fried one of the AF12's FW interfaces - I contacted ECHO and they instructed me to remove the interface board and send it to them (I am in the UK and purchased the unit from US off ebay so didn't even have a valid warranty). Within 5 days I received a working FW board. Their customer service is impeccable.

Yeah the customer service is excellent. I owned a Layla 3G for about 2 weeks in an experiment to try and get it to work in stand alone with digi 002. Obviously they never claimed that it would work but they tried to work through it with me to see if it could. Ultimately pro tools would crash too often and I just sold the unit. But Echo was very supportive during that time and gave me alot of ideas on how to go about it. I would definetely buy another Echo in the future if I can ever pry myself away from Pro Tools. Just for the record it worked rock solid with a version of Sonar 7 that I have.

[indiemojoe]

I know it's an old thread buuut, how did you like the sk48?

Selling my mr816x and looking at going with either that or the audiofire pre8.