11th March 2009
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#1 | | Lives for gear
Joined: May 2005 Location: Ft. Worth, Texas
Posts: 1,893
Thread Starter  |  Fader Cleaning PM 3000 Remote Forum
I've posted this thread in the Geekslutz Forum as well for the fader cleaning required procedure. I know it requires a great deal of care. I thought I would post the question here as well due to the fact the Yamaha PM Series has been a popular one for 25 years and a live sound reinforcement staple, so I hoping there are some users or previous users that have through knowledge of the PM Series boards, including maintenance, troubleshooting and first and for most correct fader cleaning, lubing and maintaining. Faders as all know get more use than another part of a board and are the first things to start working funky to failing. I am not sure of these boards age but from what I've Googled it seems the 24x8 was popular early on, 1984 or 85 maybe. 1 due to price, 2 due to meeting minimum requirements of the day, 3 the 36x8 was the only other option. The PM series grew quickly in channel size and its damn near bulletproof ruggedness, the VCA automation made it very popular. Hell I am telling people who know this and I don't know squat, just doing as much Goolge and Yamaha and old copies of Mix, I have them back to 83 and other mags as well. This paragraph has been added to the below post that is posted as stated in the geekslutz forum as I am looking for as many people acquainted with this board as possible.
I often go to the many Storage Space sales because you never know what you might find, antiques to Pro Audio gear. They are about the only place one can luck out and find a deal anymore. Everybody's a damn antique dealer anymore from flea markets to garage sales. In this case I happened upon a hell of a deal, I hope, on a pair of Yamaha PM 3000's with 5 extra module strips in the box and 2 power supply's. They were both 24 x 8 boards with one wrapped in at least 10 layers of shrink wrap and I've yet to unwrap it. The other was in a anvil road case and was clean as a whistle. I have posted the pics top and back of this board to show "appearance condition". I say appearance condition because I know that a picture when looking for advice from you guys is like doing Brain Surgery over the phone. For starters I know that I need manuals for use and repair so that process has started. Also just one more comment before my 1st question is that I cleaned the power supply's inside and out then I did fire up the board in the photo. Every light on the board worked and all switches and knobs on each channel strip turned and switched on and off effortlessly. But I could not get a sound from any channel through the mic or channel inserts. This issue may be as simple as fuses or a switch in an off position so I'll get manuals and start from scratch and the trouble shooting section before I even begin to ask any questions concerning this issue.
So that out of the way I do have a question concerning cleaning the faders. I do know not to just squirt some WD-40 in the faders to achieve proper functioning but the faders do need attention. I would say a quarter of the faders are not smooth at all with 4 or 5 downright stiff. So I need some path forward that will require I'm sure having to remove and clean each fader properly. The board does have the VCA automation and all that implies so I don't want to touch a damn thing without the proper procedure. If anyone has the information I need like what cleaning solvent, what fader lubricant etc. etc. I would really appreciate it. I don't know how long the boards have been in storage but as you can see in the photos this board has not been abused.
I'm hoping to replace a o2r in my rehearsal room with what I believe would be a great upgrade. I have the outboard gear to replace the digital eq's, compressor's etc. etc. from the o2r. I've never been to fond of the digital board for the rock and punk rock bands that use the room but it's had to do. Now with 2 boards, 2 power supply's and 5 new module strips surely I can piece together one good board with a lot of extra parts. I sure hope so and I picked up the whole lot for $500.00.
Thanking all in advance for your help on my fader cleaning project, regards ,,deda,,
__________________ 
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"Opinions are a birthright, validity is earned" ,,deda,,
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11th March 2009
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#2 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Aug 2008 Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Posts: 869
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Did you see the master on/off switch right above the master faders?
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12th March 2009
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#3 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jan 2005 Location: Oberlin, Ohio
Posts: 4,161
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It sounds like you got a REALLY good deal.
As to the faders. You want to get some of this DeoxIT® FaderLube use it sparingly. It should take care of the problem. Road consoles are subject to many things including getting caught outdoors in rain storms and the FOH engineer eating his lunch/dinner over the console every day. So there may be some "foreign matter" in the faders that cannot be fix by a simple squirt from the fader lube. Normally when I purchase a large console (most of mine have been Neoteks) I take the whole thing apart, vacuum the insides of the console, vacuum the faders and clean up the whole console from the outside in. The Caig fader lube works great and for switches I recommend this HOME PAGE -- STABILANT It will take you some time but the sweat equity is worth it when everything works GREAT.
You may have to disassemble the console and give some individual attention to the faders if the simple vacuuming and fader lube don't work. Depending on what type of faders you have you may, if they are P&Gs, be able to disassemble them following these directions Short-Form Cleaning Instructions For Penny Giles Faders
If they are ALPS here are some ideas from this forum Cleaning Alps faders? also here cleaning P&G faders - Google Search
Best of luck! and let us know how it is going.
__________________
-TOM-
Thomas W. Bethel
Managing Director
Acoustik Musik, Ltd.
Room with a View Productions
Oberlin, OH 44074 www.acoustikmusik.com
Doing what you love is freedom.
Loving what you do is happiness.
Celebrating 18 years in the mastering business in 2013
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12th March 2009
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#4 | | Lives for gear
Joined: May 2005 Location: Ft. Worth, Texas
Posts: 1,893
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe  It sounds like you got a REALLY good deal.
As to the faders. You want to get some of this DeoxIT® FaderLube use it sparingly. It should take care of the problem. Road consoles are subject to many things including getting caught outdoors in rain storms and the FOH engineer eating his lunch/dinner over the console every day. So there may be some "foreign matter" in the faders that cannot be fix by a simple squirt from the fader lube. Normally when I purchase a large console (most of mine have been Neoteks) I take the whole thing apart, vacuum the insides of the console, vacuum the faders and clean up the whole console from the outside in. The Caig fader lube works great and for switches I recommend this HOME PAGE -- STABILANT It will take you some time but the sweat equity is worth it when everything works GREAT.
You may have to disassemble the console and give some individual attention to the faders if the simple vacuuming and fader lube don't work. Depending on what type of faders you have you may, if they are P&Gs, be able to disassemble them following these directions Short-Form Cleaning Instructions For Penny Giles Faders
If they are ALPS here are some ideas from this forum Cleaning Alps faders? also here cleaning P&G faders - Google Search
Best of luck! and let us know how it is going. | Thank you so much for your help and I'll start by getting the products and will do as you suggest in giving the complete board a vacuum cleaning. Thank you again and I will post my results, regards ,,deda,,
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13th March 2009
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#5 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Apr 2005 Location: New York Friggin' City
Posts: 2,571
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They are ALPS faders in the PM3000. They are going to need a lot of love. Start with distilled H20 or pure isopropyl and clean room type lint-free swabs you can get from Techni-Tool, not the johnson & johnson swab that leaves a pile of lint for crap to adhere to.
After you have cleaned the years of gunk of the fader and assembly, I then use Caig ProGold (a very thin layer), then a tiny bit of fader lube is the right trick. I use the P&G fader lubricant which I have available in 50 mil squeezer bottles (P&G charges like $75+ a 50 small order fee for the same size, I bought two gallons of this stuff a few years ago and sell it locally to console techs in NYC). Caig-lube is ok, not as good and as long lasting but will do the trick in a pinch.
Make sure you give yourself plenty of room to work on the faders, in a clean, dry space with no static. There are lots of good desk techs around the nation, someone could simply teach you how to do one fader module and you can then do all the rest on your own. Once I was taught how to clean a P&G, I became very dangerous.  You will be, too!
Best of luck. -Very happy for you! And you got an amazing deal- I just sold a good condition, 32 channel PM3500 for 5500 bucks. Great buyer's market, but you got quite a steal!
JvB
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13th March 2009
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#6 | | Lives for gear
Joined: May 2005 Location: Ft. Worth, Texas
Posts: 1,893
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen They are ALPS faders in the PM3000. They are going to need a lot of love. Start with distilled H20 or pure isopropyl and clean room type lint-free swabs you can get from Techni-Tool, not the johnson & johnson swab that leaves a pile of lint for crap to adhere to.
After you have cleaned the years of gunk of the fader and assembly, I then use Caig ProGold (a very thin layer), then a tiny bit of fader lube is the right trick. I use the P&G fader lubricant which I have available in 50 mil squeezer bottles (P&G charges like $75+ a 50 small order fee for the same size, I bought two gallons of this stuff a few years ago and sell it locally to console techs in NYC). Caig-lube is ok, not as good and as long lasting but will do the trick in a pinch.
Make sure you give yourself plenty of room to work on the faders, in a clean, dry space with no static. There are lots of good desk techs around the nation, someone could simply teach you how to do one fader module and you can then do all the rest on your own. Once I was taught how to clean a P&G, I became very dangerous. You will be, too!
Best of luck. -Very happy for you! And you got an amazing deal- I just sold a good condition, 32 channel PM3500 for 5500 bucks. Great buyer's market, but you got quite a steal!
JvB | Thank you for your input on this I knew it would be a delicate when I first pulled the module and your right it is the ALPS and theres not much on google about them. I will follow your procedure I want to make sure I just have to do this one time per fader so the first time the right way. Thanks again for the info and I'll post back my results, regards ,,deda,,
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