Recording Trumpets

[GRiFF]

Hi Slutz,

Hopefully a pretty simple question, I've actually done this before a few times but wondered if there was anything else I could aim to do for the best results.

Take your pick of mics, and let me know what you might think of for compression, EQ, post/pre etc, maybe some recommendations for reverb.

Stylistically, its to support a James Bond meets Latino\breakbeat vibe for a computer game.
It'll be recorded in my studio, the live room is lamenate wood floored, low ceiling, half damped. Used to sound a bit biscuit tinny, still not as tight as I want it yet. Wondering if I should place the musician in the deadest part or aim to make most use of all the bright, short reflections that still exist.

Anyway choice of mics I have...

U87
AKG414s
AUDIX Drum Mics
C1000s
SM57/58s

Into AMEK CIBs

Lexicon Reverbs

Thanks in advance, for any groovey, non patronising advice about how hopeless my gear\studio\attitude is.
)

[brado32]

I just recorded some jazz trumpet using a AEA R84 ribbon mic about two feet in front of the bell.. Neve and a little bit of 1176 and it sounded great!..

YMMV !!

peace

-B

[docformat]

i can't speak from a wealth of experience but i use an akg 414 set to cardioid to record my tenor sax and it sounds great. if you see live footage of jazz concerts you often see wynton marsalis or whoever blowing into a 414 (something to do with spl levels i think)

ps i'm in london so if you need a tenor player drop us a line!!

[PRobb]

I'd try having the player in the damped area, blowing into the live area. Of the mics you listed, I'd go with the 87. Remember that some trumpet players are LOUD, so you might want to use the 10dB pad on the mic. Also, angling the mic back a bit prevents direct air blasts, and can brighten the sound a little. And keep the mic at least two feet away from the bell. Experiment.

[joeq]

trumpet players often like to face a wall or some relflective surface to hear themselves better.

I too love the R84 on trumpet!

I like to set the mic a little off to one side or above or below - there is some kind of "vortex" when you are looking straight down the bell. sometimes I put up a dummy mic for the horn player to aim at while the real mic is a few inches to the side.

[swankdoc]

Originally Posted by joeq

sometimes I put up a dummy mic for the horn player to aim at while the real mic is a few inches to the side.

man, thats a cool idea. trumpet target practice.
Might as well make that a picture of May West or something fun to aim at.
..or a cardboard cut out of a U47 while the active mic is a SM58 off to the side....genius.

[Kubilay]

To me the main thing with a trumpet (and many other wind instruments) is to not get too close. Two feet is absolute minimum distance, I'd go a good bit further if the room doesn't suck donkey. Otherwise you get that squeezed, mid-rangey, nasal, nasty close-up sound, plus the gargling of the spit in the valves for good measure. Bleah.

(Actually, if you do that on purpose and mess up your gain staging, then you get that inimitable super-distorted "banda" brass sound, which I actually really dig.
As always, if you gotta f.ck it up, f.ck it up ROYALLY!)

[Punchmo]

I agree with the U87. Just tracked fluglehorn and trumpet with this mic about 30 inches away angled slightly up from the bell and into the room. Awesome sound. I used an old Manley pre into a touch of LA4 to tape. Very nice track.This player is deaf in one ear and can't hear out of the other....loud 7506's. The bleed didn't matter...he was awesome.

[PlugHead]

Personally, I'm a ribbon freak for brass, but when there aren't any around I'd go first with a good dynamic (RE20, 441, SM7, etc) then try LDCs: U87 would be my guess with your choices. Tried, and never liked a 414 on trumpet, on any of the patterns...

Best,

[GRiFF]

Originally Posted by docformat

ps i'm in london so if you need a tenor player drop us a line!!

Hey Doc,

I'd recommend you drop by with a card or sample CD, I'll definitely keep you on file, I'm seriously into stockpiling good musicians right.

I'm round the corner from Old Street tube station, 31-35 Pitfield Street just opposite the Holiday Inn. My numbers 07891 677447

BTW, looking for more bands and cutting good deals right now, so if you know of anyone...

Apologies if this is sounding like a serious studio plug

'The Hutch Recording Studio, simply the vibiest, hippest sweat box in London'

[GRiFF]

Ok you guys, now for the serious post.

I'm liking the U87, slightly angled back, 2 feet away from the player in the damped area, blowing into the brighter section, preferably with some bright wall behind this.

What about thoughts on compressing at the recording stage, eqing and such like?Personally I'll rarely compress anything if I can help it, but I know some of you will have different ideas.

Fastish attack times? Long release, fairly hard ratios?

And finally in the mix, Eq ideas, compressing and reverbs?

You've been great, keep it coming...

[borau]

Hi!

I've done quite a lot of mic comparisons of mics on trumpet,
We are recording a lot of jazz stuff, and we wanted to know kind of what we could get away with when having to use our goto trumpet mics(E47, Coles 4038 and MD 441) on other instruments when tracking larger ensembles.

No doubt a ribbon like a Coles or an AEA is the greatest trumpet mics along with a U47, or an E47.
KM84 is great too.

However from your choices, and to my suprise when we checked it out, a u87 is not at all bad on trumpet, infact it beats an RE20, which is a quite common choice.
What goes for all mics regarding trumpet is that you don't want to point the bell straight into it, sounds bad.

The absolute worst mic I've tried on trumpet is the C414. Ahhrrrggg
Disgusting.
Hope it helps.

Regarding pre's:
V72 ish
1073 ish
or Transparent.

Regarding mix.
Not much compression. And in my taste; very little verb.

[docformat]

i'll give you a call griff

[Steffmo]

First time I ever did a serious horn session was with the Blues Brothers Horns.

Alan "Mr. Fabulous" Rubin on trumpet. I put a 414 in fronbt of him......he got up from his chair until I took the mic down. His comment: "Cheap Japanese Shit".

I pointed out it was Austrian.....he said..."Its still cheap Japanese shit".

Fortunately I had a good RE20.

By the time he came back I had purchased some Coles 4038.....which he felt sounded as good as his personal U47.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by Kubilay

To me the main thing with a trumpet (and many other wind instruments) is to not get too close....

You can get real close provided the mike is not directly in the middle of the bell where there is this cone of nasal, ugly sound. I've heard great results from a wide variety of mikes. The trumpets on Temptations' "Ball of Confusion" were miked with57s! I've heard great trumpet recordings made with a 635a. If there's any trick, it's having great reverb available.

[cgarges]

I've had good results with 414s, but my favorite results have been with U87s. I like a good, thick pre that doesn't sound harsh up top. An API puts the trumpet in a nice space for pop music and a Manley is nice for smoother, jazz-sounding stuff. I generally don't like to compress trumpets unless there's a specific need, in which case I usually like something slow.

I once had a terrible experience with a trumpet player who walked into a session and before shaking hands with me started making certain demands about reverb and compression. The guy was a boisterous jerk (who took many takes to get his part, by the way), but from his demands I did indeed learn a few things that contribute to getting that Burt Bacharach trumpet sound.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[fraz]

Originally Posted by cgarges

I once had a terrible experience with a trumpet player who walked into a session and before shaking hands with me started making certain demands about reverb and compression. The guy was a boisterous jerk (who took many takes to get his part, by the way), but from his demands I did indeed learn a few things that contribute to getting that Burt Bacharach trumpet sound.

Well, c'mon - share them with us!

[GRiFF]

What I ended up doing was putting up the U87 and 414 for a direct comparison. Actually, the 414 came out top, it just seemed to have a more suitable brittle sound that lended itself well to the style - spanish/latino vibe.
Stood the player 2 feet away with the mic slightly angled off, with him blowing into the brighter more reflective area.

Everyone was happy. The U87 just seemed a bit too warm on that occasion.

Compress wise, I setup with a short attack, with a few db reduction just to control it a little without flattening it.

It didn't take long to set up the A/B, now I'm converted to the principle of experimenting with different mics.

Thanks for your input folks.

[borau]

OK, so it was latin.
Thats a high pitch competition, has nothing to do with trumpet.


You see, I thought you where asking advice for recording trumpet

There is actually a Mic specially designed for that kind of latin "trumpet" playing.

[cajonezzz]

If you can get your hands on a Royer 122/121 give that a try.... NOT TOO CLOSE. which will mean you need a good sounding room.

[cgarges]

Originally Posted by fraz

Well, c'mon - share them with us!

Well, it was funny because as soon as he walked in, without saying "hi" or shaking hands or anything, he asked if the studio in which we were working had a REV 7. I told himit did not and then he asked if we had an SPX90. I told him we did and he said that he wanted, a "hall, 2.6," which I took to mean a 2.6 second decay time. He also asked for 2dB of compression, so I hooked him up with a few dB of reduction from a black LA4 at 2:1. Of course, the guy emitted that kind of sound from his horn, so it was easy to get, but the SPX90 verb and the compressor helped. Funnily enough, when I went out to listen to him play, he immediately demanded that I put the mic in a certain place. After just about having enough of this guy barging in and telling me how to do my job without even introducing himself, I asked if he had a preference in mics, at which point, he pointed at the 87 I was getting ready to place, shrugged, and said, "That one looks good."

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Berolzheimer]

I got a nice trumpet sound today with a Royer r121 about 3 1/2 feet away and slightly off axis, into a Berlant tube pre, then an ADL1000 with a touch of compression.

[Greg Heimbecker]

I'm with Bob on this one. Getting off axis is the key. 30 to 45° works nicely. I like using an e 47 for solo stuff and an old school 414eb for section stuff.