Which Pre for a Ribbon Mic for Live?

[Sui_City]

Hi all,

I have a brilliant classical guitarist friend who loves the sound of the R84 on his $25,000 guitar.

He generally plays venues unamplified. But the venues where he needs amplification, which pre would you guys suggest?

And would one go from pre to power amp directly?

Thanks in advance.

[JonCraig]

what was the r84 running through when he heard and liked it? use that one.

--jon

[Sui_City]

Unfortunately that was in a recording session using an O2R.

He is a bit of a purist and really loved the way the R84 handles the high-end. The majority of local acoustic and classical guitarists get mixed with an incredibly brittle and piercing sound. He is also interested in music within a space as opposed to just the sound.

As a result, he wants to get an R84 of his own, and use it in both a live and a recorded context for continuity.

Thanks again

[fixnmix]

While I have not had a chance to use the R84 - I do own a couple Royers and use the Coles mics quite frequently and I love them both.

I think one thing he really needs to consider is how relatively fragile ribbon mics are - - and they are generally a little lower in level than most condensers. How they will react to a smokey(?) environment - or something bumping the stand - - all the general hazzards of playing live.

Now he used the Yamaha pre's when he fell in love with the mic and its sound - - I would suggest something that is clean and punchy like the Yamaha pre. API, Hardy, GML, Grace - - all are very clean and have good gain and response I have found with the ribbon mics. There are plenty of others too - those just come to mind.

I don't think any venue would allow you to go from pre to amp directly - most will have you go thru their mixer setup(whatever that might be). If it is that important to him - he will have to do a little bit of prep work before each gig to get the sound guys to 'allow' him to use his gear with theirs- - I know a lot of those 'house' guys who do things one way - and have for a very long time - and don't really like to change things. More of a "if it aint broke, don't fix it" mentality. Which I respect in so much that you could really make a mess of things at the desk catering to EACH individual band/member each time one comes in.

That being said - - he should really be nice to the house guy - have adapter cables already made up for interfacing with different consoles. Then be sure the live guy doesn't get ahold of the EQ. I would imagine they are doing some drastic work on it to make it work in their rooms. Rolling off some LOW end is always welcome in very live rooms - - 60+ Hz or so - and I bet they 'hype' the top - just to make it exciting and live in the room. He should really watch that - - THEN who knows if the venue uses any type of compression or not. So many factors in the brittle and piercing battle. MAN then getting into the acoustics of the venue - - -

Anyway, these are just my opinions and are in no way to be considered hard and fast rules.

Good luck

Aaron

[JonCraig]

using a ribbon on stage would have to be placed creatively due to the fig. 8 polar pattern, also.

--jon

[DigitMus]

Since you're talking about classical guitar, I would definitely suggest staying with a more "squeaky clean" flavor of preamp - GML, Millenia, Earthworks, Martech...

...but since you're talking about live, I'd also recommend putting a serious EQ in the chain.



Scott

[stedel]

Wow. Your friend is a brave man taking an R84 to a live gig. Make sure the door's shut and the air conditioning's turned down.

I have an R84...in fact I've just part sold/traded one of my other mic's for another one (R84) which is due tomorrow. I really love these mics for not just accoustic guitar, but also female vocals and electric guitar - all of which I've been using it on a lot for the last few weeks - actually it seems to be becoming my main mic.

I've tried it through a few mic-pres including Manley, Universal Audio and Avalon but the one I really like and prefer is when I put it through a Focusrite ISA 43O Producer Pack. Yeah I know Fletcher thinks these things stink - they don't. The variable impedence facility works really well with this mic, giving you a very strong rich signal level, and because the 430 unit is comparitively quiet you don't have to contend with additional noise with your signal. The "air" switch on these units seems to really compliment the R84 BTW. It also adds a nice edge to the higher frequency sector of an accoustic guitar without becoming harsh - yep I agree with your friend.

Re the above comments about EQ for a live gig - you also have a rather nice and c omprehensive EQ with the ISA 430 as well as some excellent compression - although I try and prefer not to use compression with classical guitar, and if ever a mic is suited for use without compression the R84 is it.

The 430 Producer Pack aint cheap though. So ideally I'd recommend one of these, but if cost is a factor I seriously suggest you check out the more stripped down version of the Producer Pack...I forget what it's model designation is, but it is part of the Blue series range that includes the 430.

Kind regards

[andy_simpson]

I don't want to scare anybody, but it'd be pretty easy to make a gain staging ****up during soundcheck, when the room is empty and live (and since the rear of the mic is listening to the room plenty) and that gain level ****up could send feedback howling through the PA, and/or monitors, which could 'melt' or distort the ribbon element, especially the classic 'LF boom' kind of feedback.

I might be overstating the possibility, but with an outboard pre involved, such gain staging ****ups are more likely.

Andy

PS, to fall in love with any mic via the o2r pre is certainly a testament to the mic! ;-)

[Sui_City]

Hi Guys.

Thanks for all the replies.

We tried this on Saturday night and the rig we were using didn't have enough gain. Locally we have no in-house systems (small town), so he is likely to build up his own rig.

Now here is a little story from Saturday night.

I bought an R92 and an R84. While we were setting levels, the guitarist couldn't hear anything but i could.

He decided to check the level by placing his mouth on the grill of the R84 and sing directly into it!

I almost puked right then and there. My stomach turned, and my balls re-located to my throat.

I went back to my studio after the gig to check the mic.

Nothing wrong with it!

I know ribbons are sensitive, but this really impressed me. The sound was as gorgeous as ever and no loss in signal at all.

Don't try this at home!

Ribbons Rock!

[Amplove]

Rent or buy a Beyer M500 Ribbon. It's a ribbon and hypercardioid. I just watched Neil Young Rust Never Sleeps from back in the late 70's and he's using one of those for an outdoor concert. Awesome. Don't be afraid to use what sounds good. Just be careful. An R84 is quite a big mic to be on stage in a live environment but hey, it's only one guy with a guitar. It's not like Judas Priest is going to be on stage.
jason