Backups are a crutch; Backups are for sissies...

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by Shadow_7

... Also bear in mind that I'm NOT the OP of this thread. This thread originated in another thread and was extracted "out of context" in my name (by the sound of it, I don't think I've gone back to page one of this "different" thread yet).

Folks,

Nothing in this thread is out of context!

The first post from this thread was the post that started all the "wacky sissies crutch" stuff in that other thread.

Keep in mind that I moved all the non relevant posts (about useless back-ups) from the original thread to this new one.

Shadow 7 started the off topic discussion that created the over flow of responses that mucked up the original thread.
These posts are in the exact sequential order they were written in.

I had to move the off topic posts because it wasn't very fair to the original thread starter since it was going further and further away from the original topic.

This topic had nothing to do with the original thread.
Decide for yourselves -- here's the link to the original thread > Show Me Your Mobile Recording Setup
Shadow7's post would have been placed around post #23 if you look at the timeline; every other post followed in sequence.
Do you believe it should have stayed in the other thread?
I think not.

[mixedupsteve]

I think it would be more accurate for the subject line to refer to the other thread. I knew it was but someone else might assume Shadow 7 just dropped this statement and thread from nowhere. Several people in this thread referred to him as the OP.

[NorseHorse]

Originally Posted by LX3

Shadow, I don't actually get why you're buying a video camera. I mean, if people aren't paying you for your audio, how will blowing your annual budget on one cheap video camera help?

Originally Posted by LX3

One camera will not do it, even if you had a camera operator for that one camera.

Does everyone here have money to throw around? Buying a camera will allow him to do what he wants to do. Could it get any simpler?

To speak in hyperbole, it's OK to not do everything as a full-blown 5.1 production multi-camera DVD international release laserlight show with live webstreaming and closed captioning special features dot com. This applies to LIFE in general.

I bought a SINGLE videocamera this winter and a number of groups have been VERY EXCITED to have a basic visual documentation to accompany the audio. They aren't saying "oh... just one HD camera?" or "where's the back-up camera?".

I have a SINGLE digital camera. I take good pictures with it. Check it out: CBA - Postcards My camera isn't even a DSLR! It's OK that I'm not a professional photographer. It's OK that I don't have a back-up camera, extra batteries, light trees, or lenses. I do it, and I like it. And other people do too in audio, video, and photography. And art and auto repair and writing and preaching and running and designing emoticons. (Ever thought about who makes those? )

It's funny that we/us get soooo into audio that we can't even comprehend when it isn't the #1 life priority and focus of others on the forum. ...or at least that what it sounds like reading these posts over. (Which I'm thoroughly enjoying by the way.)

And in the past, I've followed LX3's advice of pairing up with a "video enthusiast". However, if we were on VIDEOslutz, I would need to insult you for suggesting that Shadow_7 work with someone less than a full-time professional who probably doesn't have the top-of-the-line gear or a back-up. SHAME ON ENTHUSIASTS!

At this point in my career, I'm taking baby steps into video. I would never let someone belittle me for having just one camera, in the same way that I wouldn't expect Remotesters to belittle newer recordists for having just one rig.

[Remoteness]

Remember, your buddy Shadow 7 has four rigs, but he leaves three of them home...

He doesn't need to fail.

[NorseHorse]

Remember: Baby Steps...



PS. Steve, those rigs aren't suitable... Remember, you need the right tools for the job. That's his goal.

[Shadow_7]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Nothing in this thread is out of context!

MY apologies for not quoting in FULL everything I've ever replied to. This thread IS out of context. If only in the sense that YOU (or which ever moderator) copied the punch line, but NOT the joke. Or maybe I did quote. It's hard to tell. There was another backup thread that seems to have disappeared where I DID LIST my backup priorities that seems to have VANISHED. YOUR professional sarcasm aside. YOUR professional attacks on an amateur (if only based on pay grade) are NOT warranted.

Can I assume that it was YOU who worked for BVP in 2006? It sure sounds like it to me. Since you're attacking me on a professional level. And have encouraged others to do so as well, even though I'm clearly classified as an amateur, if only by scale (stereo recording, no backup). Are YOU responsible for screwing up my $6K+ season that I clearly SHOULD HAVE put towards putting YOU out of business.

[bishopthomas]

I am now convinced that this guy's a troll. Good luck with whatever it is you are trying to do (if not just to make enemies along the way). This is the end of this thread for me.

[NorseHorse]

Convinced he's a troll?

Shadow_7 has been contributing member forum for quite some time. Try reading his older posts, and you might actually understand his needs and goals and passions a little more than in a thread he didn't start.

Though I think I'm with you Bishop when I say personal stuff in both directions leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[RobAnderson]

Well at least this thread makes some sort of sense now.

I just couldn't figure out why someone would start a thread celebrating the fact that they did not want to use a backup.

BTW, is this the event in question: Vic Firth Salutes DCA 2006
?

[LX3]

Congratulations Norse, this will be my last post on the subject.

Shadow mentioned the idea of selling DVDs for $20. I don't know if he meant that he might try to sell his DVDs for $20, but that's how it reads.

Thing is, there are limited prospects for a DVD that is shot with one camera.

Assuming he has aspirations to produce a saleable product at some point in the future, I was kind of hoping I might be able to save him some time. From what I can make out from his posts, he could save himself a year of grief by finding some camera operators to work with sooner, instead of later. Anyone working in live performance video has to build a small team to work with. It's not the same dynamic as audio, where it's often possible to work single-handed.

(In fact, since you can't realistically produce saleable video - let alone take care of the audio - all on your own, it throws up another option, which is not to buy a camera at all, which was kind of my point. Hey, look at that, I'm trying to save him some money. Where did I suggest that he buys two cameras? You do realise that most pro video companies own very few of the cameras they use? No-one in the business spends big money unless the economics make some kind of sense... or they're loaded and can afford to blow the cash.)

I certainly never intended to belittle anyone, and I'm not really sure where I did. I'm always intrigued by what other people are up to, at any level. I hope you're all having fun doing whatever it is you do.

Lastly, why are you suddenly talking about stills cameras? It may be a visual medium, but otherwise it's a completely different process to video. Why do people keep turning to analogies that don't bear any relation to the subject?

As I said earlier, I had some perspective to relate in this thread which I thought might be useful, but I don't see any point if well-intentioned people are going to get blasted whenever they post. You can lead a horse to water, but not only won't it drink, it'll kick you in the teeth.

Good luck with everything.

[RobAnderson]

Can I assume that it was YOU who worked for BVP in 2006? It sure sounds like it to me. Since you're attacking me on a professional level. And have encouraged others to do so as well, even though I'm clearly classified as an amateur, if only by scale (stereo recording, no backup). Are YOU responsible for screwing up my $6K+ season that I clearly SHOULD HAVE put towards putting YOU out of business.

Dude - this is way out of pocket. It's generally a good idea to think twice before posting comments like this (which is part of the reason this thread went where it did in the first place). Being disrespectful just makes you look foolish. Most of your irreverent comments trying to defend an untenable position are no doubt the reason you found yourself the star of your own thread.

It's funny that we/us get soooo into audio that we can't even comprehend when it isn't the #1 life priority and focus of others on the forum.

People become audio engineers because they are passionate about it - I have seen otherwise civilized people argue heatedly over whether it is better to use only two mic's or more to record an orchestra, or if coincident stereo techniques are better than spaced techniques; or which microphone is best on trumpet.

Most people in this world would say "who cares?" I do. I am no great engineer, but I love what I do, and as a result, I care about it. I mean, it's just a job - but what a great job it is!

Go ask a really good accountant why in the world he cares about bean counting and then watch his eyes shine as he tells you how amazing it is to do it for a living.

I think it's called integrity and taking pride in what you do. Professional or amateur, is there any other way?

[Remoteness]

What exactly are you talking about?

The original thread that started in March of 2008 was brought to life on the 23rd of February, 2009 at 10:34 PM EST by joselitho. This Gear Head wanted to show off his new Custom self-made recording rig.

You came in (on that thread) for the first time at 12:06 AM EST on February 24th, 2009 (post #23) which is the exact post that starts this thread.

Every post from that point on happens in the precise sequential order.

Nothing was deleted and nothing was changed.

Many of the folks that responded to your "over the top" concept about back-ups replied within the original thread.

Follow the timeline and I challenge anyone that can say something was deleted or changed from these threads!

You came in as post number 23 in that original thread; explain to me how this thread is out of context?

You know what? I can create a third thread that can merge both threads (the original and this one) but what will it gain?
I didn't leave anything out when I moved the off topic posts to this thread.

You said what you said and the folks on this forum replied to what they read.
Remember, many of the replies happened when it was in the original thread.
This was the main reason why I moved the off topic posts to its own thread.

It isn't too hard to figure things out since there's a timeline you can base everything on.

There are now over 100 posts on this thread; why don't you go back to the beginning and figure it out like I did.
You will see exactly what has transpired in the proper chronological order.

I get the feeling you have realized that you painted yourself in a corner and that is okay!
Look, believe it or not I (we) only wanted to help you see the light.

You have directed a lot of sarcasm, attacks and disrespect towards me and others.
It's quite fascinating that you are now projecting this on me.

My threads, posts and contribution to this forum should speak for its self.
How dare you turn this into an issue with me when you started and perpetuated it all?

Your first post (dated 2/24/09) says it all and, you never considered backing down even when each and every one of us (except NorseHorse of course) did their best to steer you in the right direction.

Shame on you, dude!

Listen, grow up, say you’re sorry and let us move on -- better days bro, better days!

What did you mean when you said, "Can I assume that it was YOU who worked for BVP in 2006?"
What does the acronym BVP stand for? Those last few sentences read a bit disconnected.

Furthermore, how have I encouraged others to attack you?
IMO, your foolish concepts and such created all the problems you’re imagining I did.
Come on; don't throw that crap on my lap -- you seem to be your own worst enemy.

Wake up; smell thye coffee - get over it...

Take responsibility for what your started and do something positive instead of (now) blaming me and some others (except for NorseHorse of course) for what has transpired.

Imagine if you never posted that ridiculous post on February 24th, 2009.
You would have nothing to complain about.

Crazy stuff; Right?

Originally Posted by Shadow_7

MY apologies for not quoting in FULL everything I've ever replied to. This thread IS out of context. If only in the sense that YOU (or which ever moderator) copied the punch line, but NOT the joke. Or maybe I did quote. It's hard to tell. There was another backup thread that seems to have disappeared where I DID LIST my backup priorities that seems to have VANISHED. YOUR professional sarcasm aside. YOUR professional attacks on an amateur (if only based on pay grade) are NOT warranted.

Can I assume that it was YOU who worked for BVP in 2006? It sure sounds like it to me. Since you're attacking me on a professional level. And have encouraged others to do so as well, even though I'm clearly classified as an amateur, if only by scale (stereo recording, no backup). Are YOU responsible for screwing up my $6K+ season that I clearly SHOULD HAVE put towards putting YOU out of business.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

Does everyone here have money to throw around? Buying a camera will allow him to do what he wants to do. Could it get any simpler?

To speak in hyperbole, it's OK to not do everything as a full-blown 5.1 production multi-camera DVD international release laserlight show with live webstreaming and closed captioning special features dot com. This applies to LIFE in general.

I bought a SINGLE videocamera this winter and a number of groups have been VERY EXCITED to have a basic visual documentation to accompany the audio. They aren't saying "oh... just one HD camera?" or "where's the back-up camera?".

I have a SINGLE digital camera. I take good pictures with it. Check it out: CBA - Postcards My camera isn't even a DSLR! It's OK that I'm not a professional photographer. It's OK that I don't have a back-up camera, extra batteries, light trees, or lenses. I do it, and I like it. And other people do too in audio, video, and photography. And art and auto repair and writing and preaching and running and designing emoticons. (Ever thought about who makes those? )

It's funny that we/us get soooo into audio that we can't even comprehend when it isn't the #1 life priority and focus of others on the forum. ...or at least that what it sounds like reading these posts over. (Which I'm thoroughly enjoying by the way.)

And in the past, I've followed LX3's advice of pairing up with a "video enthusiast". However, if we were on VIDEOslutz, I would need to insult you for suggesting that Shadow_7 work with someone less than a full-time professional who probably doesn't have the top-of-the-line gear or a back-up. SHAME ON ENTHUSIASTS!

At this point in my career, I'm taking baby steps into video. I would never let someone belittle me for having just one camera, in the same way that I wouldn't expect Remotesters to belittle newer recordists for having just one rig.

We started a couple of years ago providing a feed to a camera person who was doing the video for some of the concerts we were recording. The problem was he took forever to get the stuff done AND his stuff did not look very "professional" and he was charging the groups more and more money. We were asked if we could provide the video as well as the audio. We started out very small with one camera but it did not look very pro. We soon added a second camera so we could do pan and scans with on and an overall shot with the other. Things just grew from there on out and now we are doing more and more video work. Recently we got asked to to a recital recording for a pianist both audio and video and we said sure. BUT the person doing the concert wanted a MINIMUM of three cameras and really wanted a four camera shoot. We now have that many cameras but to hire four people to do the video PLUS me to do the audio PLUS the post production would have cost us a bundle and she was only willing to pay $200 for the whole shoot and post. We said no. Once you start offering your services people, at least around here, seem to escalate what they want from you but forget that with more and more services comes the additional cost to provide them.

As to backups.

I did the Cleveland Opera for the first three years with only one Ampex tape recorder because I did not have the money to afford more than one tape deck and because it was very heavy and I had to carry it and all my mixing and monitoring equipment up two flights of stairs to the box where we set up our "control room". It was always a very nervous time for me because I only had one machine and was always thinking what would happen if the tape did not record and I would lose the whole opera, So now I take my trusty DAT machine, a CD recorder and and an SD recorder to every show and do not one but two backups of everything I record. If you are doing recordings for chuckles and grins then you can do what you want. If you are being paid money then it behooves you to have a backup. Case closed.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by mixedupsteve

I think it would be more accurate for the subject line to refer to the other thread. I knew it was but someone else might assume Shadow 7 just dropped this statement and thread from nowhere.

I agree... I was away for the weekend, and when I returned, there was this thread which started in a rather odd fashion with no information about the fact that it had been split from another one. This would have helped and has been done before.

And this will be my only post ever in this weird thread...

[mixedupsteve]

Originally Posted by d_fu

And this will be my only post ever in this weird thread...

I'm done too! Nothing good is coming from this anymore (if it ever did)

[Corran]

I was also gone for the weekend, and missed all the stuff that "started" this thread.

Perhaps this whole thread should just go away?

For the record I am friends with Shadow7 and I think he has good intentions. But this thread has kinda gone way overboard.