Extremely portable FOH/Live Recording Rig

[Murton]

Hey all,

Just joined up as I keep thinking about this setup I'm looking to purchase soon and need some feedback on the setup as a whole.

I'm currently in the market for a Small format Digital mixer and have decided on the Yamaha LS9-16 Digital Mixing Console. Also, in Australia buying locally as current stock is still in atm from before our dollar crashed to 65 US cents so I should act quick if I can.

I currently have a M-Audio ProFire 2626 and one of my production partners also has one so we have a total of 16 preamps which we can add to the LS9 to bring the input count up to 32 to cover all bases and to provide preamps until we slowly upgrade to decent quality preamps for FOH and recording duties.

I'm planning on buying the LS9-16, the 16 channel ADAT expansion card, a road case for the LS9 with some additional rack space. Just to be difficult I"m planning on having the rack and the mixer spaced side by side, as in two seperate rack's in the one road case horizontal wise with wheel's on one end and a long handle on the other so I can whell the whole rack along behind me so it's as portable as it could get.

The Case will contain the LS9, the ProFire 2626 (My one), a Presonus Lightbridge or an M-Audio Lightpipe, a rack draw for mic's, either a Tascam 48 track HDD recorder or the Alesis HD24 for backup recording and in the future will contain another set of 8 preamps and I'm also considering a rack mount UPS due to the LS9 not having an option for a second power supply.

Looking to also purchase a bunch of dynamic mic's (57's, 58's, e609's, SM7b), some condesner's (AKG C1000S', Rhode Nt5's and maybe a pair of NT1a's or NT2a's) and a few other odds and ends.

So basically I'll come out with a LS9-16, two set's of 8 preamps, backup HDD recorder, spare dynamic mic's, overheads and room mics, lightbridge to Laptop to record in either Logic Pro 8 or PT M-Powered (If on my own and less than 18 tracks) All neatly arranged and mounted in a rack case with the mier on one side (possibly with the UPS underneath it if any rack space underneath the LS( depending on the height of the case, the external preamps, the backup recorder and a rack draw for mic's on the other side.

ACSII mock up
________________________
| | PREAMP |
| LS9 | PREAMP |
| | HD24 |
|LIGHTBRIDGE | HD24 |
=___UPS_____|_Draw_______| <- Wheel's
^
|
Handle (extending)

Components:
- Yamaha LS9-16 (Aprox $8000 AUD)
- 16 Channel ADAT extension card. (Trying to get included in LS9's cost)
- Roadcase (Possibly custom built $500 - $700)
- Presonus Lightbridge/M-Audio Lightpipe ($600)
- Alesis HD24 (Couple of grand, purchased later on)
- Mic's are coming in around $3000 total (Spread between two people)
- Haven't researched the UPS yet.
- Rack Draw ($150)

Total looking to be around $13000 before haggling. Hoping to get the LS9, expansion card and rack case for around 8-9000. and then the mic's for around 20% off, lightbridge for around $600, not sure on the HD24 yet, rack draw should be cheap.

[aussie_techie]

where are you based?

if you want as LS9 to be flexible enough for FOH and monitors and everything easily available in it (and isnt that why your buying a digital desk) then get the 32 channel version. i know on the surface it seems like you wouldn't need it once you expand the i/o of the 16ch but its really is going to be much more usable. just imagine tuning a 30band graphic eq with only 16 faders

with the larger version you would put the LS9 in its own case if you want one person to be able to lift it.

dont waste your time and money with C1000s, anything else at a similar price will be better. even with the current value (or lack of) with the dollar you can still get dynamics at good prices. there are still plenty of SMs around at similar prices to 6 months ago and i recent got SMs and Betas from the US that were only a little more than i paid last time i order from within Australia (even then it was still cheaper than buying from a dealer going through jands)

ive seen used HD24 come up at good prices but i havnt seen to many around to general to be sold used so you would have to get one when you can if you wanted to buy used anyway.

[bishopthomas]

It sounds like a pretty solid plan. The LS9 is a great little console and if you can live with the 16 faders it will be perfect for you. It does take some getting used to the graphic EQ section on the faders because each group of bands is overlapping with the next (so one fader is several bands instead of just two, which I think would make more sense). The only thing in your plan that I question is the case for it all. How many rack spaces would be on each side? It seems like a normal 12-14 space rolling rack would be better (and cheaper), but it's up to how you want to transport it.

[matthewd]

Hello

Just skim reading - on the recording side, there is a great new recorder coming out soon called the black box which is designed by Joe Bull formerly MD of Sadie - purveyors of excellent high end DAWs. It is quite original in design - have search for joe co - the idea is it is a small format rack mount box into which you plug external HD and simply track from your mixer inserts and it can also interestingly be used for a virtual soundcheck once your artists are gone. I think it will give the Tascam a serious run for its money. I may well be in the market for one as a backup recorder. Above all, history has shown that Joe is a great bloke and you can expect a great very personal service. I hope he does well with it.

Matt

[bishopthomas]

I saw that but it has some slight issues that make it unusable for live recording. I think they're targeting the wrong market with the "virtual soundcheck" hype. It's also more expensive than the HD24, so what makes it better?

[Murton]

Originally Posted by aussie_techie

where are you based?

if you want as LS9 to be flexible enough for FOH and monitors and everything easily available in it (and isnt that why your buying a digital desk) then get the 32 channel version. i know on the surface it seems like you wouldn't need it once you expand the i/o of the 16ch but its really is going to be much more usable. just imagine tuning a 30band graphic eq with only 16 faders

with the larger version you would put the LS9 in its own case if you want one person to be able to lift it.

dont waste your time and money with C1000s, anything else at a similar price will be better. even with the current value (or lack of) with the dollar you can still get dynamics at good prices. there are still plenty of SMs around at similar prices to 6 months ago and i recent got SMs and Betas from the US that were only a little more than i paid last time i order from within Australia (even then it was still cheaper than buying from a dealer going through jands)

ive seen used HD24 come up at good prices but i havnt seen to many around to general to be sold used so you would have to get one when you can if you wanted to buy used anyway.

I'm based in Newcastle, NSW.

The problem with the 32 channel fader version is the cost of the unit, the size and the weight. The LS9-16 will fit my requirements for all three. The graphic on fader's doesn't really worry me as I will have a laptop running Studio Manager sitting on top of the second section of the rack which I can adjust the graphic's with a mouse if the ease of changing to the section section of the graphic EQ is too much for me. I only need 16 Mic Pre's with another 16 digital mic pre's for the size of show's I am doing. channel's will cover two stages of any event I will be doing. Remember, my goal is to have a complete 32 channel FOH/Liverecording rig in a single Rack case that's able to be transported by a single person on public transport.

The C1000S's are a rec to use for live mic's and overheads although RHode NT5's are another option aswell as Rhode M3's due to the useability of the mic's. I'm well open to any other SDC, MDC or LDC rec's for these uses. I want them to cover Overheads, Hats, Room mic's, Crowd mic's. Versatile concdenser mic's pretty much.

I should be able to get decent prices on the SM's. I know you can still get 58's and 57's for under $150 each.

The HD24 is going to be a later purchase that I will save up for from revenue from gig's for add redudancy to the rig. Haven't fully researched the price of the unit as yet. I've used a few before and know my way around them.

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

It sounds like a pretty solid plan. The LS9 is a great little console and if you can live with the 16 faders it will be perfect for you. It does take some getting used to the graphic EQ section on the faders because each group of bands is overlapping with the next (so one fader is several bands instead of just two, which I think would make more sense). The only thing in your plan that I question is the case for it all. How many rack spaces would be on each side? It seems like a normal 12-14 space rolling rack would be better (and cheaper), but it's up to how you want to transport it.

I'm looking at around 6, maybe 8 rack units a side. It's looking like it might need to be custom built currently as I need two normal 6 unit racks side by side and then road cased with heavy duty wheel's on the edge and a handle on the other side to pull along for mobility reason's. Also must be lockable. The other option is to find a trolly system to lock in two seperate rack road cases together and have the wheel and handle system seperate from the road cases. Also another viable option. that way I can place the racks on tables to suit height etc. The problem with a normal 12 unit road case upright is the mobility of the unit, I've came across many and they are annoyingly hard to move as they are and I don't want the unit to be top heavy either.

Originally Posted by matthewd

Hello

Just skim reading - on the recording side, there is a great new recorder coming out soon called the black box which is designed by Joe Bull formerly MD of Sadie - purveyors of excellent high end DAWs. It is quite original in design - have search for joe co - the idea is it is a small format rack mount box into which you plug external HD and simply track from your mixer inserts and it can also interestingly be used for a virtual soundcheck once your artists are gone. I think it will give the Tascam a serious run for its money. I may well be in the market for one as a backup recorder. Above all, history has shown that Joe is a great bloke and you can expect a great very personal service. I hope he does well with it.

Matt

I shall be sure t check any other viable alternatives at thetime of purchase so I can get my monies worth. Right now the Alesis HD24 ad the Tascam 48 track are the only option's I have heard of so far.

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

I saw that but it has some slight issues that make it unusable for live recording. I think they're targeting the wrong market with the "virtual soundcheck" hype. It's also more expensive than the HD24, so what makes it better?

Virtual sound check is a marketing gimmick. You need SPL level's into the mic's to do a proper sound check. The sound circle of the monitor's, mic's and the FOH coming from a real source will not have the same EQ curve as a filtered recording of the source. Pretty much the only feature I find weird on digital consoles is recallable head amp gain as gain will vary between performance's due to many variables. A general level is done with known bands and known gear but tweaks shall always need to be done.

[aussie_techie]

the initial cost is always a concern but bigger version do allow them selves to be used on bigger shows so you may be able to get a bigger return on it. its still no bigger than a 24ch analogue desk, so size isnt generally a problem, one person can certainly lift it but i can see its not going to be easy on public transport, i think even the 16ch with 6-8U rackspace is going to be hard on public transport but maybe your public transport is better than over here. using the graphic is only one example (and using a mouse for a graphic is even worse) its the old problem with digital desk that while you may have more channels than faders you have to start banking around to get to everything, remembering that every return is going to need a fader aswell so once you have fx returns etc inputs you suddenly come up a little short and things get complicated if you trying to mix a large show over multiple layers as the LS9 doesnt have sub groups or VCAs. its the bigger shows where digital desks are called for so i think if your doing to invest in digital you have to do it right. then again on bigger shows its probably unlikely you would be providing the desk unless you doing the entire PA. but its all down to what you going to use it for in the end, and im only speaking from what ive come up against.

also how are you going to monitor your recording? if you plan to get a HD24 you will need the digital returns or a line mixer. that alone could be a reason for the 32ch version over the 16. woudn't it be nice if they had a 24ch version.

NT5s give better results that C1000s for the same kind of money. if you need something with a tighter pattern then you can grab an NT3 (or a pair) as well. they are much better mic, and better priced in this country than most imports.

anyway some things to think about and all how i see things anyway.

[Murton]

Originally Posted by aussie_techie

the initial cost is always a concern but bigger version do allow them selves to be used on bigger shows so you may be able to get a bigger return on it. its still no bigger than a 24ch analogue desk, so size isnt generally a problem, one person can certainly lift it but i can see its not going to be easy on public transport, i think even the 16ch with 6-8U rackspace is going to be hard on public transport but maybe your public transport is better than over here. using the graphic is only one example (and using a mouse for a graphic is even worse) its the old problem with digital desk that while you may have more channels than faders you have to start banking around to get to everything, remembering that every return is going to need a fader aswell so once you have fx returns etc inputs you suddenly come up a little short and things get complicated if you trying to mix a large show over multiple layers as the LS9 doesnt have sub groups or VCAs. its the bigger shows where digital desks are called for so i think if your doing to invest in digital you have to do it right. then again on bigger shows its probably unlikely you would be providing the desk unless you doing the entire PA. but its all down to what you going to use it for in the end, and im only speaking from what ive come up against.

also how are you going to monitor your recording? if you plan to get a HD24 you will need the digital returns or a line mixer. that alone could be a reason for the 32ch version over the 16. woudn't it be nice if they had a 24ch version.

NT5s give better results that C1000s for the same kind of money. if you need something with a tighter pattern then you can grab an NT3 (or a pair) as well. they are much better mic, and better priced in this country than most imports.

anyway some things to think about and all how i see things anyway.

I just found out my budget may be able to accommodate the 32 fader version, the problem is, I would need a separate rack for the outboard gear potentially making the rig a lot less portable than using the LS9-16. Althought the LS9-32 road case could have straps to sling around the shoulder and have the outboard rack in pseudo trolly form to allow portability still.

The 32 fader version would also support the purchase of more microphones, i.e. enough to mic two stages. Two drum kit's, 8 SM58's and 12 SM57's, 4 e609's and 6 SDC's. Getting 5 grand worth of mic's, the LS9-32 for ten grand and another couple of grand for outboard would make the rig a monster in terms of useability but also in terms of weight. The only real way to know which to purchase would be the potential use for the console vs the amount I am able to charge to provide my services. Around the newcastle area there are a lot of paying gig's for an LS9-16 in terms of input requirements and room size but few availible to me currently with the input capabilities of the 32 channel version although they could become availible upon having the console. So it's a gamblebetween the two depending on amount of business gained from having the larger console and the added weight in the transport process allowing me to travel to the venue's. Also, returns from the HDD recorder is also a good option to monitor the inpui although hadphones monitoring would be fine.

Two valid arguments for either the LS9-16 or the LS9-32. It really dependings on the market of potential clients wanting either one and my ability to get there with either one.

Mic choice is still up in the air. I want to eventually end up with enough mic's to fit two stages at once, including two drum mic kit's, four guitar mic's, 8 vocal mic's, 8 Overheads/hats/room/crowd condesner mic's that can double in the studio as acoustic/vocal mic's. That is the ultimate goal. Portable FOH recording rig which can mix and record two stages at once.

[bishopthomas]

AussieTech - In my opinion, the LS9's layers are the most intuitive of any layer-based digital console out there. And if you want you can set up the custom fader layer and have your favorites always at your finger tips. Also, the LS9 can do subgroups. I'll give you a hint: Look in the bus setup page.

Murton - I think your goals are a little oxymoronic. You're trying to create a rig that can accomplish both FOH and recording duty, AND you want to be able to take it on the subway? Why? And if you're providing FOH won't you be providing racks, stacks, monitors, power distro, cabling, and all the other things that come along with providing sound? You obviously can't take this on mass transit, so why worry about the rest?

I respect that you want to be able to work two stages simultaneously, but I only see that working if the stages are immediately next to each other. If it were me I would focus on making one killer rig, and when it's on the road every day and I'm having to rent equipment to cover double-bookings and multiple stages then I would look at buying another identical rig. It sounds like you have a gig in particular in mind and you're building this rig for that.

As far as monitoring the outputs of the recorder, I know the HD24 has no monitor section so you'll need to get all 24 outputs into some sort of mixer to be able to even listen on headphones. A lot of people use line mixers, so factor that in to your rack space. Or if you end up with the 32 channel LS9 you can use the second layer (33-64) for that purpose, through ADAT ins. But you're getting less and less "portable;" I'd hate to throw that LS9-32 over my shoulder and manuever the streets and underground of Manhattan.

Just some things to think about, and mostly just my opinions. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Murton]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

AussieTech - In my opinion, the LS9's layers are the most intuitive of any layer-based digital console out there. And if you want you can set up the custom fader layer and have your favorites always at your finger tips. Also, the LS9 can do subgroups. I'll give you a hint: Look in the bus setup page.

Murton - I think your goals are a little oxymoronic. You're trying to create a rig that can accomplish both FOH and recording duty, AND you want to be able to take it on the subway? Why? And if you're providing FOH won't you be providing racks, stacks, monitors, power distro, cabling, and all the other things that come along with providing sound? You obviously can't take this on mass transit, so why worry about the rest?

I respect that you want to be able to work two stages simultaneously, but I only see that working if the stages are immediately next to each other. If it were me I would focus on making one killer rig, and when it's on the road every day and I'm having to rent equipment to cover double-bookings and multiple stages then I would look at buying another identical rig. It sounds like you have a gig in particular in mind and you're building this rig for that.

As far as monitoring the outputs of the recorder, I know the HD24 has no monitor section so you'll need to get all 24 outputs into some sort of mixer to be able to even listen on headphones. A lot of people use line mixers, so factor that in to your rack space. Or if you end up with the 32 channel LS9 you can use the second layer (33-64) for that purpose, through ADAT ins. But you're getting less and less "portable;" I'd hate to throw that LS9-32 over my shoulder and manuever the streets and underground of Manhattan.

Just some things to think about, and mostly just my opinions. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Hey Bishoptomas:

It's true I am designing this rig for a certain gig in mind. I regularly for all ages shows in the local area with a production company, we already have a FOH rig in terms of pwoer distro, monitors, FOH speakers etc. The only real downer to the rig is the FOH desk and rack system which the LS9 will takt the place of. We run a two stage gig once a year and yes the stages are side by side to the single console for both stages would be highly convient.

I want the rig mobile as I don't drive myself and dont have any plans to drive myself anytime in the future due to having only one eye whislt still technically able to drive, I dont have the confidence in my side vision enough to get a license.

Two 6U rack cases in a trolly style device to move them easily is my main goal to cover FOH for our mobile rig and an install rig in a venue in which I have casual part time doing all audio duties. This way I can improve my own employment performance whislt providing an alternate income stream at the same time by recording all bands and opffering the recordings to bands after the show if they so wish. This will also double for the events we put on our own as I would be able to travel seperately from the main speaker transport if the gig is local enough.

Remember, I'm aiming to be as portable as possible and have the most tracks of recording and quality FOH for what I am doing at the moment and open opportunities for the future.

[Murton]

The idea has changed for the rig.

Still including the LS9-16 in a rack case, but now outfitted with an EtherSound expansion card. In another rack case I shall have the Yamaha SB168-ES EtherSound 16 In/8 Out PreAmp Stage Box.

This will give me a total of 32 I/O with an option to downgrade to 32 In and 24 Out when doing FOH depending on the amount of outputs needed for FOH duties. Can cut down on outputs if more channels are needed by cutting down on monitor sends.

To record I would have to get an external PCIe chassis such as the Magma ExpressBox with an ExpressCard 54 card and a Digigram LX6464ES or a Digigram LX1616ES with the Firmware upgrade to 32/32 I/O when a job needs the full 32 tracks of recording.

Thus the rig would go LS9-16 > Yamaha SB168-ES > Digigram LX1616ES > BackupRecorder with EtherSound Input.

I have found one EtherSound Hard Disk recorder so far which seems quite good which would fit perfectly in having a backup recorder which goes into the rig without any trouble at all.

The rig would be highly upgradable in the future, have a small footprint and allow me to go Pro Tools HD in the future with an EtherSound to AES/EBU converter and a suitable number of HD Interfaces and a PCIe card in the Magma chassis. Or if Digidesign release an interface with EtherSound input/output it would integrate into the rig perfectly, PCIe card in the Magma, interface int he EtherSound network.

[Murton]

After looking into the EtherSound path, ITS WAY TOO EXPENSIVE!

Back to the ADAT model.

LS9-16 - $7600
ADAT Card - $900
2x Rack Case - $800
ADAT FireWire/ExpressCard54 Interface - $800
16 Channel Preamps (2x 2626's already have)
Alesis 24XR or Tascam 48 track - $Unknown, Purchase later.
UPS Power Backup - $Unknown
M88 x1 - $650
RE20 x1 - $680
AKG 451 x2 - $1200 Matched Pair
SM57 x6 - $170 Each
SM58 x4 - $180 Each
MD421 x2 - $550 Each
e609 x2 - $210 Each
SM7b x1 - $600
K2 x1 - $SecondHand-$800 or $1300 New.

[Murton]

Keep refining the rig.

Yamaha LS9-16 w/ Rack Mount $7600
Yamaha 16 Channel ADAT Expansion Card $900
Dual 6U Rack Case w/ Top Mount Mixer, Casters and Extending Handle $700
Presonus Lightpipe $1200
Stienburg Nuendo 4 $2000
UAD Xpander $1000
Rack Draw $200

Total $13600

PLUS possible second hand Apogee Big Ben for around $1300 if I can find one.

Microphones

Shure SM57 x6 @ $200 Each, $1200
Shure SM58 x4 @ $220 Each, $880
MD421 x2 @ $550 Each, $1100
e609 x2 @ $220 Each, $440
AKG 451 Matched Pair, $1200
M88 x1, $650
Rhode K2 x1, $1000
RE20 x1, $680
Shure SM7b, $600

Staggering Microphone purchase over time as I save up more money.

Neuendo over PTMP or PTLE due to input limitations. PTHD is too expensive unless Ican find a secondhand PTHD1 system for under $4k which I highly doubt due to having to get an interface, Core card and PT8 for that money.

Looking for a second hand Apogee Big Ben for around $1300 to clock the LS9, 2x ProFire 2626's and the Presonus Lightpipe to.

Possible future upgrades:

2x 8 Channel PreAmps w/ ADAT or AES/EBU Output.

32 Channel I/O ADAT or AES/EBU PCIe Card in rackmount Desktop or Magma ExpressBox.

Nuendo Control Surface.

PTHD w/ 192 Digital I/o's or Apogee Converters.

Plug-in's

Microphones etc

[Murton]

Refining the rig once again.
Just put an email into a few companies to see what kind of prices I can get for the following: (Put in brackets the lowest price I have seen for each)

Yamaha LS9-16 Digital Mixing Console ($7600)

Yamaha LS9-16 Rack Ears ($40)

Yamaha 16 Channel ADAT Expansion Card ($500 second hand)

Apogee Big Ben ($1600 second hand $2200 new)

Presonus Lightpipe ($1299 + Faderport)

Cubase 5 ($850)

4U Rack Draw ($150)

2U Rack Draw ($200)

Monster FP 2500 Power Distribution ($400)

KRK RP6G2 Studio Monitors Matched Pair ($750)

4x Shure SM57 ($154 Each)

4x SM57 Drum Mic Clips (Unknown)

3x Shure SM58 ($150 Each)

2x AKG C1000s ($449 Each)

2x Sennheiser e609 ($156 Each)

1x Beyer Dynamic M88 ($575)

5x Microphone Stands w/ Long Boom Arm ($90)

1x Short Microphone Stands w/ Short Boom Arm ($60)

6x TOSLink ADAT cables ($40 Each)

4x BNC wordclock cables ($40 Each)

Rackmount Goosneck Lamp ($50)

Custom Built Rack Case (2x 6U 19’ Racks Side by Side w/ Mixer Rack on top with atleast 220mm Clearance so atleast 6U is usable below the mixer both sides, lockable catches, recessed casters 100mm heavy duty on one end and recessed extending handle on the other end. Three lids, top front and back, handles.) (Estimated $700 Custom Made)

[Murton]

More news on my little project!

It seems my local music store actually have an LS9-16 in stock, it's been sitting there for three months and no one has looked at it and they are willing to offload it to me for mega cheap.

I'm in the process of getting my custom case designed in CAD to give to the case manufactorers as some shops have said the design is very complicated for them.

Rig is look like this currently:

Yamaha LS9-16
Rack Ears
Apogee Big ben
Presonus Lightpipe
Furman PL PRO DMCE
Custom Made case: Two 8U three lidded mixer suspension racks side by side, recessed handles, wheels, extending handle, deep hinged top lid for 2x22" monitor mounting, double deep back lid, lockable latches.
M-Audio ProFire 2626 - Have already.

Cubase 5
M-Powered 8
M-Audio's M-Box Micro version
KRK Rokit6's Monitors
Stands
Leads
Patching (TOSlink/BNC etc
2x 20" DELL LCD monitors VESA mounted in the top lid which is hinged to the case to fold up.

Mics:

M88 (Kick/Brass/Bass/Guitar)
Beta 56x3 (Toms)
Beta 57x3 (Snare/Guitars/Toms)
Beta 58x2 (Vocals)
e906x2 (Guitars)
Rode K2 x2 (Room/Overheads)
C1000s x2 (Room/Overheads)
Rode M1 (Vocals) - Have already.

Plan is to expand with 8 money channels, external graphics, external comps, EtherSound Snake, on Stage remote preamps, more mics, 32 channels of active splitters, patchbay, MASS output to a multipin drop box multicore.


So, I've registered my domain name for my little business based on this rig.

Untitled Document

Hopefully, I should start buying things in the next couple of weeks, I'll be sure to document the process in the form of many photographs for everyone here

[Murton]

Here's is one of the CAD prototypes.

Gotta push the console down to where it will sit, add in the ball corners, latches, hinges and the extending handle.

I might drop it down to 6U each side. Also, I have made a whole between the two racks for the rack mounting of the power conditioner for the rig.

Let me know what you think!

[bishopthomas]

Looks like a cool setup. I still feel that double wide racks are unmanageable with only one person. Also, here's the catch 22 with making it 6 spaces: It will be lighter and easier to transport, but it will be so short you'll have to walk like Igor to push it.

[Enginearing]

have you considered the acoustic shadow your design will create at your mix position? (you want this to be a live sound rig as well right?)

how do you transport your extremely portable rig? (it seems like a Big bulky case to drag along on two wheels... if that's your plan) its gunna be heavy once you fill it with gear.

also consider that LCD panels don't like to travel flat... if they have to travel, upright is the safest way.

[Murton]

The case will be quiet low so from a standing/normal chair position, I should still be able to see over the lid very easily.

I am thinking of just putting four wheels on it.

LCD's don't like flat storage? Why is that? It makes sense but I am wondering why.

[Enginearing]

storage might be fine... transportation however creates vibrations which then combines with glass's inability to flex... might not be such an issue with 22"


i rekon you should save a couple of grand somewhere and buy a small van... its a big box to lug around, if you have 4 wheels you can't put it up on a table so you're forced to sit down therefore you'll be up and down for the whole gig, and mixing in a shadow of the audience as well as your case.

not trying to piss on your parade i'm just highlighting a few real issues that may arise... bishopthomas made some very valid points. heeding advise might end up saving you some $$$ and heartache.

in regard to running 2 stages... if a PA company is supplying a whole PA rig, including all stacks, racks cabling, stands and labour( inc system tech) etc, the difference in $$ hire to drop a console and mics of the list ain't gunna be much...

[Murton]

Originally Posted by Enginearing

storage might be fine... transportation however creates vibrations which then combines with glass's inability to flex... might not be such an issue with 22"

Hopefully it might not be an issue, I am going to use 20" Dell Ultrasharps. I might even ask if I can make one of the lids on the front or back be able to store them during transit.

i rekon you should save a couple of grand somewhere and buy a small van... its a big box to lug around, if you have 4 wheels you can't put it up on a table so you're forced to sit down therefore you'll be up and down for the whole gig, and mixing in a shadow of the audience as well as your case.

One problem, I don't drive due to vision problems, I legally can drive but only just, I'm blind in one eye and the other is alright but I don't feel confident enough.

At one venue, when you get a wall of crowd it is indeed hard to mix, but I am used to how it sounds (Done a LOT of gigs there) I am thinking of the shadow created by te lid. The monitors in the lid is more of a decision based on live recording where live monitoring of the show is less important than monitoring of my input chain, in this chase, the shadow might help isolate me a bit more. Beside, I am used to moving into the sweet spot when mixing to actually hear how it sounds. My rig is designed to be put at side of stage with a wireless modem hooked into the road case to I can connect wirelessly with a small tablet when mixing from the sweet spot. Hopfefully using this I can get around that issue. Also, If I go for 4 wheels, I would think about having the wheels removable for stacking the box on other things to prop it up.

not trying to piss on your parade i'm just highlighting a few real issues that may arise... bishopthomas made some very valid points. heeding advise might end up saving you some $$$ and heartache.

Keep doing so! I would much rather find the flaws in my project right now rather than later on down the track in the middle of an event and loose money because of it.

in regard to running 2 stages... if a PA company is supplying a whole PA rig, including all stacks, racks cabling, stands and labour( inc system tech) etc, the difference in $$ hire to drop a console and mics of the list ain't gunna be much...

The two stage shows I am looking at are shows run by the production company I work for which, as I noted before, have the PA sorted and I am contributing my FOH for it. That means using my own mic lcoker and theirs, my console and associated gear. It is win win for both parties, I get paid more, I get other jobs and our events sound much better. We only pretty much do all ages events int he reigonal area, it's that big of a gig. Anything past what we would end up doing, it would be mid format sized consoles like the M7CL which is just too expensive for my budget, let alone weight issues.

The LS9 is pretty much the best option for my situation in regards to weight vs features and I can easily build a multitrack live recording rig around it.

[Enginearing]

sweet... its an awesome thing to work for the company already... that way swinging by in the truck to pick up your stuff ain't gunna be an issue.

[Fuzzy Logic]

Originally Posted by Murton

Here's is one of the CAD prototypes.

Gotta push the console down to where it will sit, add in the ball corners, latches, hinges and the extending handle.

I might drop it down to 6U each side. Also, I have made a whole between the two racks for the rack mounting of the power conditioner for the rig.

Let me know what you think!

nice setup but i'm not sure if you can call this an extremely portable rig.
when i think extremely portable i think backpack or a briefcase or even a suitcase setup.

just my 3 cents.

[Murton]

Yeah, it was the intention to be extremely portable in the begining but now it's kinda not.

I jsut did a gig with the LS9-16 and it was excellant, very very nice preamps in it, acoustic guitar and vocals together sounded amazing with a little reverb. Then full bands became a little more interesting. I split the kick drumm and bass guitar into two seperate channels each and split the EQ between them using high pass and low pass filters and then used different compression ratios and different attack times to create some very fat sound to prevent any beat masking occuring.

I can reccommend the preamps to all. they are leagues aboove what I have used other than the avalon 737 area. For $6000(AUS) with a retail of $9500 it is a absolute steal.

My 'extremely' portable rig involves my interface and my laptop and mics.

[gareth.h.rees]

You may want to check out these recorders - I saw them in Audio Media the other month and they're pretty compact! 24 channels in 1u!

JoeCo BlackBox Recorder Summary

Not sure of price, details or anything... but may be worth a look! Will get around to seeing what the deal is myself one day :D

Gareth

[gareth.h.rees]

After reading a little about this (and apparently a UK price of just £1500)... remote recording engineers are going to have a very hard time getting work from recording bands!!!

[Enginearing]

looks interesting.... pity all of the model options arent available as one unit... IE balanced analog, consecutively with the digital options......

[gareth.h.rees]

Originally Posted by Enginearing

looks interesting.... pity all of the model options arent available as one unit... IE balanced analog, consecutively with the digital options......

Indeed, but for that money you can't argue too much :D

[Murton]

Looks quite nice. An ADAT model would go down quite well as a backup recorder.

Might see what my local can get it for.

[bishopthomas]

I have emailed a couple of times with JoeCo to try to get a demo unit. Right now they are all out but I should try again. I want to be proven wrong, but I don't think this unit will make it. Do a search for my preconceived opinions.