Recording small jazz/folk combo

[bardo]

Hello Gearslutz!

I am a singer/musician with little experience of recording. I would welcome some ideas for recording our small 4 piece improvising combo comprising double bass, spanish guitar, voice and sax/clarinet (no drums or percussion)

We have recorded in studios before but decided to do our own recording in a simple room to allow us to experiment more and get away from using cans. We play together facing each other in a circle format and our music is quite intimate. We love and get our inspiration from the micro detail, resonance and natural sound.

I have been fortunate enough to obtain some nice mics and a good recorder over the past year: Pair of matched Schoeps CMC6/mK21 (sub cards) and a matched pair of Earthworks QTC30s. For recording I have the new Nagra VI machine with 4 dedicated channels and 2 stereo line ins.

My aim is to spot mic for detail and also capture the overall room ambience for a coherent image. The room will possibly not be anything special and will be in one of our houses.

Questions I have:
Can we use one of the mics on each instrument and still get a coherent image?
What mics from the ones mentioned would you use on what instruments?
What mic(s) if any would you consider road testing/purchasing to add to the mix?
Would you recommend another mic for low tenor male voice i.e a large diaphragm? Or go with the Schoeps?
How far away from each other do we need to be ideally?

Any suggestions welcome!

[Audiop]

I'm sure you can experiment with the gear you have and get nice results, however I have heard very very nice recordings with ribbons in blumlein in livingroom with bass, violin, voice and dobro which would be kind of similar to your group. Think it was Sontronic Sigma.

Being a Earthworks QTC1, Sennheiser MKH8020/8040 guy I can definately see a pair of Royers or Sigma in my collection later this year.

I think you can get good results spot miking and balance the distance between mic's and members to get the right amount of bleed for room sound.

Or maybe using one pair as main, the other as room mic's and swap them to see what that gives.

Don't know if that was much of help, just thought I'd share my random thoughts.

/Peter

[bardo]

Hi Peter

Nice random thoughts. How would you use a ribbon together with your qtc and mkh mics in such a scenario?

Thanks

Bardo

[Audiop]

Actually the clip I was thinking about was just a pair of ribbons in Blumlein.

Other than that I can think of a gazilion combinations and varaitions of one pair of omnis/subcard/ribbons.


/Peter

[trompetfreak]

Originally Posted by bardo

Hello Gearslutz!
small 4 piece improvising combo comprising double bass, spanish guitar, voice and sax/clarinet (no drums or percussion)

I have been fortunate enough to obtain some nice mics and a good recorder over the past year: Pair of matched Schoeps CMC6/mK21 (sub cards) and a matched pair of Earthworks QTC30s. For recording I have the new Nagra VI machine with 4 dedicated channels and 2 stereo line ins.
---
My aim is to spot mic for detail and also capture the overall room ambience for a coherent image. The room will possibly not be anything special and will be in one of our houses.
---
Questions I have:
Can we use one of the mics on each instrument and still get a coherent image?
What mics from the ones mentioned would you use on what instruments?
What mic(s) if any would you consider road testing/purchasing to add to the mix?
Would you recommend another mic for low tenor male voice i.e a large diaphragm? Or go with the Schoeps?
How far away from each other do we need to be ideally?

- You will miss the air and room if you closemic everything, so then you'll need extra mics for that...
- I'd make an A/B out of the omni's, and have the schoeps near vocal and bass, to take the distance out. Make a nice setup around the A/B, and try different positions, orders, distances and places in the room (reflections etc)
- Atleast one more SDC (km140/km184/schoeps) would be nice to add for the guitar, an LDC (whatever sounds nice for his voice... TLM103?) for vocal. Schoeps is nice, but I find it not so great on vocals... Try some nice mics out, but don't trust anyone but your own and bandmembers ears...
- I wouldn't set up too far from eachother, and have a nice equal distence to the omnis. Either in a carré setting or on a straight line. Not around it.

[bardo]

Philip

Thanks for your comments. Can you let me know what a carré setting is?
Have you worked with the Neumann LDC you mention? How did you find it?
Finally I saw a post of yours referring to miking a double bass. I think you recommended a German made omni mic fixed to the bridge by elastic. Can you remember the model?

Thank you

Bardo

[peet]

Bardo,

you have some quality mics, but I would spend some time finding a really nice sounding room. If you have that your mics will give you the best results. I see no point in using nice mics in a bad sounding room. Good luck!

Peet

[bardo]

Thanks Peet, that is a timely reminder which I will add to the check list.

B

[trompetfreak]

Originally Posted by bardo

Can you let me know what a carré setting is?
Have you worked with the Neumann LDC you mention? How did you find it?

A carré setting is, I think, more of a theatrical therm. It is sort of a half circle. Tho in your situation, some instruments are louder, so might want to take some more distance.

I have used the Neumann TLM170 and TLM103 on vocals, grand piano and horns a lot. Both live and recording. Placed right, and with a good pre, they sound great. The 170 is nicer on a bit of a distance, but has a great sound too.

Originally Posted by bardo

Finally I saw a post of yours referring to miking a double bass. I think you recommended a German made omni mic fixed to the bridge by elastic. Can you remember the model?

It is MBHO's MBP648 (or 603) modular system with the KA1100 K capsule. It's a side-adress LDC cardioid on a normal SDC-like pre. It is true that it's fixed to the bridge by elastic, tho the cardioid is pointed to the body. This mic works also great on grand piano and horns. I've never heard it on vocals. I think every live recording engineer should own at-least one, two is better

I added a pic of the capsule.