getting more work?

[Just Dan]

So the word-of-mouth thnig hasn't really worked like I had hoped. I'm horrible with self-promotion because I think it seems pushy and would rather someone call me for a job becaue they heard from someone about the quality of my workbut, in a city like Houston, it seems there aren't enough performing groups or groups with a budget to record.( my one regular ensemble had a severe budget cut-back and can't even afford my old (rate so I'm recording them at my student rate just to be able to keep recording.:-/ And the groups that do all seem to choose venues like the big college or perforing arts centers that come with a recording crew as part of the package. any ideas other than writing every performing group and hoping they'll hire me if thy don't already have a regular recording engineer?

[Corran]

Hand out business cards like they're going out of style!

Also a really flashy card seems to help. I have shiny black ones that always get looked at due to their novelty.

Other than that I don't know - I'm having the same issues. Craigslist has garnered some business but there is waaay too many people advertising on there to get seen (and for like $5/hr).

I'm about to write a really nice form letter and send it to every high school and church in the area. Will cost probably $50 in postage but who knows - one gig and it's payed back 5x over.

[joelpatterson]

You really do somehow have to "sell yourself," and being pushy is all part of the game. Or "pushy" is casting it in a bad light, you want to come across as "enthusiastic" but "genuine" at the same time. I guess that would be "genuinely enthusiastic" to put it all together in the same quotation marks.

If I'm in a band, or I'm staging a concert series, I want someone to come along and seem like they really enjoy/appreciate/understand-the-point-of the music I'm doing. I already know that just about practially anyone these days could "make a recording" of it but I want someone who's really going to make it shine, who cares enough to do a careful and maybe even brilliant job.

These people will see it all in your eyes, your dedication and your fortitude. You have to be their buddies, there really isn't any other way the whole thing will work.

[Shadow_7]

Houston should be a lot more active. Last I scoped, there were like 7 full sized community wind ensembles. And it's like the 4th largest city in the nation. Just not the richest.

You might try flyers at the local college(s) / arts center(s). You could try what I do, and just show up to a rehearsal and ask to record at no charge. Give them a free sample of it, and let them know your regular rates. Also let them know that that's your B rig, the A rig is much nicer (even if it's the same). You'd have probably upgraded by the time you're called upon anyway. Even if that group doesn't hire you, some person in the group that's in another group might.

Not that rehearsals give you good mic position, or much more than a chairs width away from the wall to record from. But it keeps you busy. And it clues you in to what mics / levels work better or not at all in certain conditions / groups.

[Corran]

Originally Posted by Shadow_7

Also let them know that that's your B rig, the A rig is much nicer (even if it's the same). You'd have probably upgraded by the time you're called upon anyway.

Ha, that's actually a good idea. Even if it is slightly dishonest.

Or just use your "B" rig but make sure it is a really good recording (or just use less mics) and tell them the same.

[NorseHorse]

Make sure ANY group you are possibly interested in recording KNOWS who you are.

Send an email, a postcard, a compliment, a sampler, a plan, a coupon, a link. Take them out to lunch (like Plush!).

If they don't know that you're there, there's no way for the phone to ring.

PS. Sometimes you can't wait for the phone to ring. Do you know a neat local group that doesn't have a CD out? Tell them you'll sponsor the recording and they can buy CDs from you to re-sell.

[Shadow_7]

Yes, make sure they know who you are. And if they ask you to not record the rehearsal DON'T, but stick around anyway if it's okay with them. Sometimes they don't have some critical members in town and such, but if you can come back in a couple weeks. And chances are that someone in the group wants a business card, or to ask you about your gear, or needs a favor for a friend. Or one of the members has a rehearsal with another group in less than an hour that they WOULD like you to record.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Get to know the groups in your area. Find out who the conductor or leader is of the groups. Schedule some time with them and tell them about what you have to offer. Make sure you know enough about the groups so that you can bring along some demos from other similar groups you have recorded and leave the CD and a some information with them. Then about a week later call them and ask if they have had time to listen to the demo and if they have any questions. Offer to solve problems for them. If they mention that they have been having problems with people taking forever to get finished CDs back to them then focus in on this and tell them you can have the materials to them faster and maybe even quote a figure like 3 to 5 days after the master is approved they will have the material in their hands. If they are currently under contract to someone else for doing their recordings let them know that you are available if the other person cannot make it or you can do things that maybe the other person can't like video taping the concert. Make your first impression a very good one and have all your ducks in order and if they have questions either answer them on the spot or tell them that you will get back to them tomorrow with the answers and make sure you do what you say you will do. Professional trust is something that can take years to build up and can be shattered over night if you fail to deliver what you promise.

Cold calling (just dropping by and hoping to talk to someone) IMHO never works as you maybe catching the person who has to make the decision at the worst possible time and they may not have the time or their attention maybe elsewhere. I have stopped doing any cold calling on groups because it is simply not professional and does not produce the results I need or want.

Just showing up at rehearsals can be seen as pushy and for some groups there has to be waivers signed by the performers and if it is a AFM gig then the musicians may have to get paid for the gig which is something that the person in charge may not want to do. Also rehearsals can be very stressful times for the performers as well as the conductor as they have to get a certain amount of work done in a given time and the minute you put a couple of microphones into the mix you are changing the dynamics of the rehearsal.

If your town has an arts council go to the meetings, observe what their main concerns are and if an area under discussion is something that you can help with raise your hand and offer some insights. Get to be known as the person who can solve problems. If they are like most arts councils they always can use some professional advice and you will be getting your company's name out their at no cost to you.

If an arts association is putting out a magazine or program see if you can advertised in it. If it is a general interest magazine sent out to all the members ask if you can write an article for the magazine about how to promote your CDs or how to make sure your group is getting the best bang for the buck when it comes to recording.

Talk to others in the area that are doing recordings and offer your services if they need someone to cover a concert that is double booked.

Get to be seen as someone who wants to help and can solve problems not only someone who wants to make money.

YMMV

[Corran]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

Talk to others in the area that are doing recordings and offer your services if they need someone to cover a concert that is double booked.

Gosh I wish this actually worked. I know almost all of the recording guys in my area(s) and I have approached all of them with a business card and a brief rundown of who I am, what I do, and what gear I have.

It might be because of my age (23), but every single one of them has been rude and dismissive. I heard from a friend who is working with one of them (not recording) that he doesn't like me and will hold on to this one gig that he stole from me for as long as he can! (This was some politicking many years ago that caused that mess.)

I'm really sick of that actually. Even non-recording people - yesterday I was recording a group that had just gotten their picture taken by a photographer. The hall manager asked about my mics because he wants some nice stuff for the school, and I told him the pair (Earthworks QTC-1s) would be about $2300, and the photographer says "Oh, well the school should buy like 10 pairs and then they wouldn't have to pay any recording people." I was speechless - I couldn't even think of an appropriate response!

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by Corran

I'm really sick of that actually. Even non-recording people - yesterday I was recording a group that had just gotten their picture taken by a photographer. The hall manager asked about my mics because he wants some nice stuff for the school, and I told him the pair (Earthworks QTC-1s) would be about $2300, and the photographer says "Oh, well the school should buy like 10 pairs and then they wouldn't have to pay any recording people." I was speechless - I couldn't even think of an appropriate response!

I would have said "sure, and while they're at it they could pick up a $300 digital camera or two and they wouldn't need to pay any photographers either."

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by Corran

"... and then they wouldn't have to pay any recording people..."

Speechlessness is actually the best response to cluelessness.

It's amazing when people don't even listen to what's coming out of their mouths. At the barbershop, I heard a kid sit down in the chair and tell the guy, "Yeah, cut it short, that way it'll last longer. Save myself some money, y'know?"

The barber kind of laughed it off, in a way like he was forcing a laugh. "Yeah, paying for haircuts. That really sucks, now don't it?" I suppose that's what he shoulda said.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by Corran

Gosh I wish this actually worked. I know almost all of the recording guys in my area(s) and I have approached all of them with a business card and a brief rundown of who I am, what I do, and what gear I have.

It might be because of my age (23), but every single one of them has been rude and dismissive. I heard from a friend who is working with one of them (not recording) that he doesn't like me and will hold on to this one gig that he stole from me for as long as he can! (This was some politicking many years ago that caused that mess.)

I'm really sick of that actually. Even non-recording people - yesterday I was recording a group that had just gotten their picture taken by a photographer. The hall manager asked about my mics because he wants some nice stuff for the school, and I told him the pair (Earthworks QTC-1s) would be about $2300, and the photographer says "Oh, well the school should buy like 10 pairs and then they wouldn't have to pay any recording people." I was speechless - I couldn't even think of an appropriate response!

Around here there are some of those types as well. They try and hold on to as much work as they can and then they get double booked and instead of calling me up they have to tell one of the groups they cannot record them. I feel for you. They are basically cutting their own throats and are so afraid that they will lose work that they disappoint one group which may leave them anyways for failure to record their concert when needed. I am very discrete when I am working for someone else and I try and just do my job to the best of my ability and pretend I am doing the job for the other person. I may leave my card so they can get in touch with me but I don't make a big deal of promoting my company on someone else's nickle.

Sometimes photographers should keep their opinions to themselves as in the case you presented. How would he feel if you said to the school "so for the next concert I can bring my digital camera so you won't have to hire an overpriced photographer?"

When someone approaches me about being a fill in I always take their card, listen to their CD and keep their contact information on file in case I get into a bind myself. If their recording is substandard or way out in left field I will so note that information on the CD so I may only call them in an EXTREME emergency.

Being a professional is in part understanding the market place and the competition that is around. I know most of my competition and I am friends with a lot of them and they will call me when they need some of my specialized services and I can call on then when I am double booked. We don't look at each other as competitors but rather businesses both doing the same work.

The one problem that I ran into lately was a Grandfather who wanted to start doing the recordings of two of the groups I have been doing for years (One for 19 eyars and on for 40 years). He was offering to do the concerts for free and it is hard for me to complete with free. He kept pushing his services and his daughter was on the board of one of the groups and she was pushing him as well. He has two grandchildren in the group and thought it would be a "neat way for filling up his retirement time" but he was not the in same league as we are when it comes to professional work and his stuff looked extremely amateurish to say the least. One of the groups was going to Australia and he offered to come along and do the video and audio recording for them and all the group had to do was pay for his airfare, his food and accommodations while they were in country. They said "thanks but no thanks" and "if we were to do this we would take Tom (me) along since he has been recording us for 19 years"

Best of LUCK! with your business.

[NorseHorse]

If this Grandfather story gets told enough, I have a feeling that in a year, he's going to get really serious about gear and technique and end up joining GearSlutz...

Anything's possible...

[NorseHorse]

PS. Just Dan, how long have you been doing this? (i.e. Available as a remote engineer in your current area?)

Word of mouth isn't exactly speedy... unless it's gossip.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

If this Grandfather story gets told enough, I have a feeling that in a year, he's going to get really serious about gear and technique and end up joining GearSlutz...

Anything's possible...

I doubt it but as you say ANYTHING is possible.

[Paul_Jolstead]

I realize that this would work for most of you that have commented already because you're already established professionals. I have many friends/colleagues that are HS band and orchestra directors. I plan on approaching them to record their concerts or rehearsals as "practice" for me as a "newb" recordist. It has been mentioned on another thread elsewhere that you can be a performer and record adequately--both sides suffer. I can't record my group while I'm conducting and tweak it as we go--I have to set it and leave it and hope for the best. BUT, I can dedicate my full attention to my colleagues performances/and rehearsals. Maybe, just maybe if I do this enough I can "drum up" enough business after the need is generated.

[This is an untapped market because not many school groups record on a regular basis except for contests or festivals. I wouldn't offer this if someone is already recording them. I can't think of any of my colleagues that regularly record their concerts.]

[Corran]

I'm attacking the high school and middle school band market very vigorously right now. There is a lot of money in it.

[joelpatterson]

Warning, warning... this is going to upset someone somewhere... if you're easily upset, I advise skpping this post... warning...

The whole idea that you need to pussyfoot around existing people with their existing arrangements, if you took that to its logical extreme, would mean that no one new would ever burst onto the scene. You'd have a bunch of meek, shuffling engineers gazing off into the distance, waiting for someone at his console to expire of old age and bam! race over and grab his headphones!

Let a thousand doddering grandfathers compete, and kids with their laptops, you were a kid once and you'll be doddering someday. I know I will.

[Paul_Jolstead]

Originally Posted by Corran

I'm attacking the high school and middle school band market very vigorously right now. There is a lot of money in it.

But how will you charge? Basing your fee off of CD sales won't work because kids will just burn a copy from a friend or, if they're really geeky, put it on their ipod. Kids won't buy CD's. I'm amazed at the "ethic" of my students music listening--they almost refuse to buy music anymore. They download bit torrents, etc. but they don't think they have to buy music anymore. The fee has to come from the service, right?

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by Paul_Jolstead

... The fee has to come from the service, right?

Right. I'm guessing-- someone will pay a flat fee for having the thing recorded and delivered on a single, master CD. After that, you're right, it enters the world virally, free to anyone who cares to have it.

Which is a far better thing than no one cares about having it and it vanishes without a trace. Let's keep everything in perspective, here.

[Corran]

Well, first, I actually have had success with selling the CDs to kids and or parents. It's usually 50% or so of the population that actually buy them, but I don't think the other half are copying it (maybe another 10% are? Who knows).

The other thing, is offering DVDs. I recently hooked up with a local who now does all my DVD work. DVDs are not as easily copied, and they provide slightly better returns (sell the DVD for $20, rather than a CD for $15).

I'm working closely with band directors to make the CD/DVD sales part of their fundraising activity. Therefore the kids have incentive from them as well.

Oh and more band directors are willing to set aside part of the yearly budget for recording all their concerts or competition CDs than one might think I've found.

And to follow up Joel's post, I'm trying to sell CDs first, make a "master" CD for the band director second. In other words, they get a free recording if they manage to get 100 of their kids to buy a CD (which amounts to hopefully $700 or more profit for one night).

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Warning, warning... this is going to upset someone somewhere... if you're easily upset, I advise skpping this post... warning...

The whole idea that you need to pussyfoot around existing people with their existing arrangements, if you took that to its logical extreme, would mean that no one new would ever burst onto the scene. You'd have a bunch of meek, shuffling engineers gazing off into the distance, waiting for someone at his console to expire of old age and bam! race over and grab his headphones!

Let a thousand doddering grandfathers compete, and kids with their laptops, you were a kid once and you'll be doddering someday. I know I will.

Here is the problem with a lot of recording contracts in this area. The people needing the recordings done are very happy with what they are getting even if it is not great because the recording people have been doing it for a long long time and they know how to "pussyfoot" around the directors wants and needs so someone new coming in would have to be quite a bit better, charge less and even that would not guarantee that they would get the contract. Also most groups around here want someone to do it all. From recording to editing to mastering to CD production and artwork and some even require the recording people to do all the mechanical rights licensing for the pieces that are going on the CDs. If someone can do all of that and give the groups what they want and need it is going to be very hard for someone new to get a break. I don't know how it is in the rest of the country but here it is based on some really long term arrangements.

I did Cleveland Opera from its inception until they no longer recorded the operas. It was a very fun gig and the opera people I was working with did a GREAT job of helping me out with the recordings. A couple of years ago a local NPR radio station decided that they wanted to record the operas for free. The station recorded one opera and then I got a call that they wanted me to come back and start doing the recordings again since the opera folks were happy with my mixes and with the way I could make them sound and unhappy with the radio station mixes. I basically worked for both the Opera and the radio station and I got paid from the radio station. This too worked out well for me. This was the way it was going UNTIL the pit orchestra decided to demand a $75.00 per member fee per opera performance for the privilege of getting themselves recorded. Since we were doing two recordings of each of the operas the it would have cost the opera about $6,000 to get a free recording. The Cleveland Opera stopped doing recordings and after a couple of personal changes and problems with some key personal they almost went out of business and now only present one opera per year and they are not recorded. I bring this up because I was doing a good job on the operas, I was out of work when the NPR station started doing them for free and back doing them again when they realized that I was doing a good job and could not easily be replaced.

YMMV

[Paul_Jolstead]

Corran,

I'm impressed that you're doing that well with indiv. CD sales. Maybe there's a strong culture there of owning the CD. I know parents, grandparents would be eager to own recordings of their kids groups but I'm surprised the kids are buying at that high of a percentage.

You said you had a local contact, "doing your DVD work" what do you mean? Are they recording the video for you, are you recording it and your contact is reproducing the DVD? I'm VERY intrigued with this, this is a service that is woefully underserved. Is it just a video camera on a tripod and gives an ensemble shot or is there some panning of the individuals, etc?

[joelpatterson]

This is clever if I'm hearing this right, Bryan... you mean you offer that you will waive the recording fee once/if CD presales have hit #100 units?

You are a marketing genius.

[Corran]

My guy runs three small handheld cameras - wide shot, closer shot, and then he manually does pans and zooms with the last camera.

The quality isn't fantastic but it gets the job done. No one around here owns like nice cameras, except the college. So it works out alright.

Joel, that's kinda it, kinda not. Basically I have them really market the CD for me as a "fundraising" item, and they get a cut of the CD sales, so everyone involved is motivated to sell those suckers. In the end, yes the directors get a "free" recording, but if I don't sell a ton well oh well, they can "get" the recording from the kids but honestly they aren't much into that - a real product to a director is of course worth a lot more, especially if the concert went well. AND I get my recording in their ears and they are more likely to call me about that recording for a competition they have been meaning to do for years, you know?

It's all about getting that first product to them, then the doors are wide open.

I'm trying to do a similar thing with church choirs. I'm workin' on all fronts, you know??

[Paul_Jolstead]

So who does the syncing? I assume you sync your audio to his video. How is this done--which program,etc? Your video guy does all the video edits for his 3 cameras. Is the audio quality higher on the dvd than your cds or are we not "there" yet w/dvd audio?

[Corran]

I edit the video usually, and just sync my audio capture with his video files after the capture. It's all rather easy actually. I use a mixture of programs, both free stuff (Windows Movie Maker) and stuff like Vegas, Adobe, etc. (school has these).

The audio therefore is identical on the CD and DVDs. Except for bitrate I guess - but I can't tell a difference after I've dithered down.

[Shadow_7]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

You'd have a bunch of meek, shuffling engineers gazing off into the distance, waiting for someone at his console to expire of old age and bam! race over and grab his headphones!

From an instrumentalists perspective, that's EXACTLY how it is. I think that when I was in college, the ROOKIE with the Disney band had been there some 14 years.

When I was in the Army Band the points (needed for promotion) for my MOS were basically maxed the entire time that I was in the Army. Fortunately there's a built in expiration date on that career. Not that it helped my career any. And there's also a built in expiration date if you DON'T get promoted.

[NorseHorse]

Originally Posted by Paul_Jolstead

This is an untapped market because not many school groups record on a regular basis except for contests or festivals.

In Northern Virginia, this market is "well-tapped" actually. And the minimum sale is not 100 CDs. More like 20-25 at @ $15 a piece. Some engineers have a recording fee that gets them in the door. Others have no fees and just sell the CDs.

PS. In case you're wondering, Williamsburg is not in Northern Virginia. I just happen to be pretty familiar with what the school scene is like there.

[Corran]

I take back what I said about syncing the audio and video being relatively easy.

This video project I'm doing right now is giving me fits .

It wouldn't be so bad except they needed a one-day turnaround!!

Anyway, it's interesting that different regions have different markets even. Down here it's untapped.