Semi-serious remote setup?

[Petrus]

Thinking along these lines:

- Fairly portable multichannel unit (8 tracks)
- No sonic compromises
- Some financial restraints aply

Solution:

- 2 Forssell SMP-2 mic preamps, 4 channels
- Prism Orpheus AD/DA
- Good laptop
- Pyramix Native broadcast version

total cost would be about 7000€

Discounting mics at the moment (have some)

Could the money be spent better?

[Audiop]

I recently made some loops of Lynx Aurora 8 with Line Audio 8MP three different clips/songs and I could not hear a difference between original file and the loop that had gone thru DA, attenuation, 30dB gain and AD.

Spending more does not necessarily means better performance.

Line Audio 8MP
Lynx Aurora 8-FW
Laptop
Reaper

= 3500€ (give or take..)

Actually the Aurora has better spec than Orpheus and AES/EBU but you loose the headphones out.

One of the tunes I used for the test was Agnus dei recorded by Ivo with Schoeps, Forsell pre's and DAD and the loop thru my gear did not change the signal audibly to my ears. That's good performance in my book and more than "semi serious". ;-)


/Peter

[Baithak]

Hi Petrus:

How about the Sounddevices 788? Does pretty much everything you want, is ultraportable and you can even do a scratch mix to to extra tracks. About USD 6K. I have the 744T its smaller brother for the past three odd years and it has performed extremely well in field.

I don't have direct experience of the Nagra VI but from what I read (and saw at AES) it too could be a serious contender,

Finally, the Sonosax MiniR8 recorder with a capable front end like the CraneSong Spider will get you top of the line quality, flexibility but not as much portability.

Good luck,
Baithak

[Jimbo]

Petrus,

It might help members if you told us how you plan to use the system.

Also, If you consider Forsell and Prism "semi-serious", what do you consider "serious"? Just curious...because that combination seems pretty badass to me!

Thanks.

[NorseHorse]

7,000 euros is SEMI-serious?!?!?

PS. What about microphones?

[Ifrit]

Originally Posted by Petrus

- 2 Forssell SMP-2 mic preamps, 4 channels
- Prism Orpheus AD/DA
- Good laptop
- Pyramix Native broadcast version

I like the idea. If only Metric Halo worked in Windows... I would look to something else in terms of interface, but other than that I'm with you! Or get Sonic Studio interface (MH made) and soundBlade along with it. Of course, laptop would have to be MacBook Pro in this case.

[Shadow_7]

Does semi-serious mean results are optional?

I'd caution against using a laptop personally. One cord tug away from disconnecting the interface. One service pack upgrade away from being offline for a significant amount of time. Plus if you have to run on battery, after sound check, you've only got enough juice left to capture the opening remarks, if that much. Not that you can't use one in a lot of venues, but in some.... Better off flexible IMO.

[boojum]

Here is a pinhead's view on this. I would go with a dedicated machine rather than a laptop. I have heard too many horror stories of laptops freezing. I have not heard that of dedicated recorders. Maybe the laptops which froze had too little RAM or too small a CPU. Does not matter: they failed. It need happen only once.

OTOH, I had two linked recorders fall four feet while recording. Luckily it was before the performance. When I checked the tracks after I got home there was not a skip or a glitch.

My hardware is Sound Devices. Nagra is competitive over where you are, but a bit pricey here. I am quite pleased with my SD's, 722's and a 788T. Nagra owners like their machines. I am pretty sure in a shoot-out the differences would be minimal. You pays your money; you takes your choices. They are both fine machines.

Cheers

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

...What about microphones?

He has some.

[XLR2XLR]

HD24 with EC-2 I am converted (if you pardon the pun)

Same A/D convertors and analog audio IC's as RADAR.

Add your preamps and record great things.

[NorseHorse]

Yes, I know he has microphones, he said it in his post.

But which ones? And are they as "semi-professional" as the rest of the gear he's look at?

And back to the OP: I would also do WITHOUT a laptop if you are focusing on live recordings. If you plan on doing session work, then stick with the laptop.

[Petrus]

Serious-serious might be Stagetech or a pile of Lavry Golds with Gordon pres...

Now I have SD722 + SD302 (moving on from video...), Senn 8020 pair, DPA 4060 pair, full set of Oktava MK012 pairs, mixed bag of Pearl, Sanken, Rode.

SD788 is a contender, yes.

Too many choices...

Addendum: coming from still photo background even 7000€ sounds "cheap" and that actually gets a highend system. Considering that just one good digital SLR body like Canon EOS-1D (4.7 MPix!!!) cost almost 8k€ just 7 years ago. And that was without mics... eh, lenses...

[tsvisser]

I would highly recommend going with the 788t. If you can compromise and get by with 6 channels, then the Nagra VI is top flight too. Although a laptop **can** do the job, having a dedicated field recorder changes your real world capabilities and convenience drastically, not to mention the reliability. There is something to be said about a self contained battery operated device too... no ground loops or other electrical anomalies to rear their ugly heads...

[audio ergo sum]

Originally Posted by Petrus

...
Solution:

- 2 Forssell SMP-2 mic preamps, 4 channels
- Prism Orpheus AD/DA
- Good laptop
- Pyramix Native broadcast version

total cost would be about 7000€

Discounting mics at the moment (have some)

Could the money be spent better?

Do the Forsell have stepped gain potentiometers?
If not I would consider the DAV as preamp alternatively. For me fixed gain settings are important for reproducing gain settings between sessions and for matching arrays.

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by Petrus

Could the money be spent better?

Yes, it could.
Sound Devices 788T.
Not just FAIRLY portable.

[Andy Saul]

Originally Posted by Audiop

Actually the Aurora has better spec than Orpheus and AES/EBU but you loose the headphones out.

Aurora has a few more channels of AES3, but Orpheus has a better tech spec for recording analogue.

Aurora analogue in performance:
THD+N -108 dB (0.0004%) @ -1 DBFS
Frequency response 20 Hz - 20 kHz, +0/-0.1 dB.

Orpheus analogue in performance:
THD+N-111dB (0.00028%, -0.1dBFS)
Frequency response 8Hz - 21.1kHz, -0.05dB (at 44k1)

[bove]

Originally Posted by audio ergo sum

Do the Forsell have stepped gain potentiometers?
If not I would consider the DAV as preamp alternatively. For me fixed gain settings are important for reproducing gain settings between sessions and for matching arrays.

Yes, the Forssell SMP-2 has stepped gain potentiometers, and is a very nice sounding preamp.


When you are deciding what software solution will work best for your situation, you will also want to consider Sequoia.

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by Andy Saul

Aurora has a few more channels of AES3, but Orpheus has a better tech spec for recording analogue.

Aurora analogue in performance:
THD+N -108 dB (0.0004%) @ -1 DBFS
Frequency response 20 Hz - 20 kHz, +0/-0.1 dB.

Orpheus analogue in performance:
THD+N-111dB (0.00028%, -0.1dBFS)
Frequency response 8Hz - 21.1kHz, -0.05dB (at 44k1)

Fair enough, I was reasoning from a loop/mastering perspective where AD and DA of the converter is in the signal path, but the Aurora FR is better than spec: 20Hz-20kHz +/-0.01dB and -2dB @ 1Hz. This is for a DA-AD loop.

THD: 0.00035% for the loop while the DA of Orpheus is speced at 0.00045%.


/Peter

[Adebar]

Originally Posted by bove

Yes, the Forssell SMP-2 has stepped gain potentiometers, and is a very nice sounding preamp.
.

I prefer the SMP-2 not only for its better sound, also for its better build quality than DAV.