Zoom R16? Any experience or opinions?

[itcamefromiowa]

Hi all,
This is my first thread, so if I've made some huge breach in etiquette, please forgive and be kind. I was just out looking for a good, silent multitrack recorder for capturing takes then transferring to computer to mix (I've got a noisy G4 Mac, a noisy Fostex HD 16-track, and a Micro-BR which is silent and fun but running everything into a stereo jack is pretty limiting. Ran across the Zoom R16 for $399
ZOOM R16 - Multitrack SD Recorder/Interface/Controller

It looks perfect for me. Plenty of inputs, 24 bit, comes with Cubase (I don't have any software besides the free stuff right now), doubles as a mixing interface for your DAW. Just wondering if anyone has any idea whether this is a quality piece of equipment. I've got an RNP so I have two channels of clean preamp. An SM7b, Rode NT2a, and some other misc dynamics and cheap condensers.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

[Corran]

Wow, that's a Zoom product I haven't seen before. I had always been skeptical about Zoom products until I bought the Zoom H4 and I really like it. Overall I'm really happy with the H4. I haven't seen or heard about this recorder so I couldn't tell you anything about it, but the main thing I'd be worried about would be how cheap the preamps and AD would sound. The H4 sounds decent at $300, for an extra $100 they add 6 more inputs - they have to have compromised somewhere, unfortunately.

I personally used the Korg D888 for 3 years as a portable 8-track recorder with great results. But it's $700 new, AND it was only 44/16.

Just check the specs and hunt for some reviews. The one thing that stuck out on the specs - only two mic inputs have phantom power. That might be a problem for you, it might not. You could also find 6 PP sources on the cheap somewhere? The ability to gang two together for 16 channels is really cool.

If you get it be sure to tell us how it is.

[itcamefromiowa]

Hi Bryan,
Thanks for your thoughts. I went and checked the website. Realized I'll have to wait a bit for more information on this one. It's preorder only for now. Maybe there's somebody on the forum who was involved in beta testing. I hear you on the probable compromises. The RNP provides phantom power, so that's 4 channels of 48v, which would probably get me by. I've only got three condensers!

How's the A/D conversion on your recorder? The reviews I've read on that unit haven't really touched on that. The preamps seem to be considered ok and the line-in to be quite good.

anyhow, thanks for taking the time.

[Corran]

The A/D on the H4, well I'd put it like this - it's way better than it has any right to be (in that price range). Now, the problem might be when you stack a whole 8 tracks of that together, you might find problems.

Honestly, from a budget gear view, this thing could be a real winner. I'm very interested to see what people say about it. I just got rid of a couple D888s but I might want to have a really small and portable 8-track rig for small jobs - this could be my ticket for that sometime.

[Juice Malone]

cascading two together for 32 tracks with 16 tracks of simultaneous recodring is an amazing feature.

It's also nice to see a multitrack recorder with the ability to connect alot of xlr connections. Most seem to have a few xlr and then a bunch of 1/4 connections. All those xlr connections, but limited phantom power is a nice compromise.

Is it really a 24 bit recorder too? From what I've seen it only records 16/44, but if you use it as an audio interface for your comp you can record 24/96 into a DAW.

I'll read the reviews when it comes out, it could turn out to be great for recording rehearsals, demos, samples, or sfx

[Saudade]

I want one No TWO

This is really what I have been waiting for IF it records 8 tracks simultaneous (standalone) at 24 bit. Features that makes it different from all the rest of the "multitrackers"

- Small footprint with 8 pres and simultaneous tracks
- Cascadable to 2 units for 16 tracks!
- Battery power possible!
- Cheap (relatively)
- Also useable as an USB 2.0 interface
- uses CF instead of harddisk - low noise and expandable medium
- can be used as control surface : aint no moving faders here but a minor convenience you can't deny this is.

I wanna save up to buy two so I can record bands at the rehearsal studio I work in without spending much more on a laptop/audio interface setup that can capture 16 tracks at once. Then I will bring the tracks back into my modest DAW for editing and mixing. Also be using them to record via overdubbing my own stuff without the convenience of multiple takes or a nice pretty screen to distract me - back to basics stuff, you know, the "play it until I get it right" approach I miss having a machine I can turn on and in 5 secs be ready to record. I had an Akai DPS12 and an Yamaha MD4 years ago and I made some of my most vibey stuff on those

Heard it also comes with a built in mic so I can use it as a songwriting scratch pad as well.

Purrfect....just keeping my fingers crossed it does record at 24 bit in 8 tracks

[Corran]

Yeah I think Tascam has a new machine like this that only does two tracks at a time. Hopefully the Zoom doesn't have this limitation or it will be seriously nerfed.

I am definitely going to look at getting one of these as a small, low-budget recording rig to use rather than my HD24XR for cheap gigs.

[Bootstrapped]

I saw the R16 at NAMM. I believe it will have the same or simliar specifications on it as the HD16 which I have. The AD/DA converters will be 24 bit however more than likely the file format will be 16 Bit at 44.1Khz, WAV file. At this price piont there is no way anyone including ZOOM, BOSS or whomever can put enough DSP inside the unit to actually have it MIX and with EQ and effects after all it is a STAND ALONE Recorder first and foremost.

In Digital you should always have a Higher Bit rate DSP Mix engine than the file format or you will be truncating and chopping off crucial bits anyways that are important detials. Piont being its better to have a 24 bit converter dithered down to 16 bits and then process it with a 24 Bit Mix engine and then dither it back down to 16 in the end than to have a 24 bit file and only process with a 24 bit DSP. The numbers may look better but in practical it doesn't work that way. Properly Dithered 16 works and that is well proven as the most common delivery method is still 16 Bit for CD.

When you apply any DSP to a 16 bit file there is a lot of critital detail that comes after the decimal piont changing to word length based on your DSP mix engine.

16 Bit word 1010001010100001 becomes
24 Bits DSP 1010001010100001.10010100 with a 24 Bit Mix engine.

So if you had a 24 bit file there would have to be substantially more DSP inside to keep the quality and detial. 32 minimum or 64bit more than likely. That would drive the cost way above what the market is calling for at this price piont. No doubt that will happen sometime in the future but my guess is it will be Many Many years until 64 bit chips are available at this price piont and as a musician thats alot of hours of creativitly gone if you choose to wait to cut your song. there will always be something better on the horizon but how far off.

Anyhow my experience and that of other i know whom use the ZOOM HD16 with its design is if you use it properly it makes excellent sounding recording especially considering the price. I have also found that if you want to juice thing up a bit adding a Channel Strip infront of the ZOOM works nicelly as well. I have a Toft ATC2 and Joe Meek One Q. They are both usable flavours however sometimes I still prefer the ZOOM Mic PRe for somethings. There is also some Pre AMp Modeling in the HD16 that can give you some flavour if you can't afford an external Mic Pre.

Anyhow if we all spend more time on the Music and less on the bits and bytes we'd end up with a better product in the end.

Just My 2 Cents worth.



Bootstrapped.

[Wraun]

Hello there: or here... It looks like I found the right place to ask this question.... Btw, this is my first post here and I found this site by googling for info on the Zoom HD16.
I am seriously considering buying one very soon... ie, my palms are starting to sweat. ;?) My needs are twofold though and I am not sure if it will meet both needs.
First of all, I like what I've read and heard about it for it's intended purpose of recording but I also need a mixer for live sound. I am a drummer and need my own mixer so that I can set up my own sound and then send it via a line out to the main front of house mix.
I see no reason on the surface that this unit would not do that but that is why I am here.
Thanks for any info...

[Corran]

It might be perfect for you since most of your mics on a drum set are going to be dynamics and not need phantom power. Unless you happen to have condensers for your toms and such? But I personally never see that in a live setting.

And I'm sure it'll work as a mixer just check exactly what kind of output it has (XLR, line, etc.).

[Wraun]

Oh yes it has individually switched phantom power. And I do use two condensor mics, one for my overhead and one for my popcorn snare but the rest are all dynamic.

Thanks

[Saudade]

anyone else noticed there has hardly been any new news about this product since it was announced? Vapourware?

[Wraun]

How long have they been around and do you think they'll be discontinued?
I remember not even a year ago, I emailed a retailer in Calgary for a quote and for the HD16 the quote was $1000ish and the HD8 was $800ish (these are Canadian prices). Now the going price in Canadian online stores is $700 for the HD16.

[Jeffguitar]

I too am very interested because I want to have a battery powered unit for recording in various spaces. What kills me is that they left the drum machine out, and that wouldn't have been a big deal had they added a midi out with sync, because their own drum machines do use batteries. Heck, I would have probably bought a Zoom drum machine usaing batteries to use with the unit. They cut out the sale of some of their own drum machines which could have been used with this unit in the field all with batteries, I don't get that.

From what I understand, it does record 24/48 on it's own, and the files themselves are 24/48, and when connected to a computer it can pass 24/96 as a pc interface. To be able to record 8 tracks of 24/48 files and a 16 track count is a wonderful next step for these portable machines.

[Jeffguitar]

More thoughts on the lack of a drum machine, I am now thinking I can turn it in to an advantage. I much prefer the sound of EZ drummer on the PC, so I could just set up 5 or 6 songs on the Zoom and record EZ drummer beat on each one. As long as you are in the same beats per minute, when you go back to the PC you could erase the simple drum lines on the zoom and bring up ex drummer and do the drums again with fills and such in the right places, since it would be synced to the PC anyway. So, you could get around the no drum machine. Of course, you could just use the onboard metronome, but I can't stand using those things. A real drum beat is what I much prefer. Now the big question is, WHEN will be be able to get these things, because I have pretty much decided to get one.

[Wraun]

Well I did it. I am now the proud owner of a brand new HD16. Now if only I had time to play with my new toy. oy!

[Corran]

Tell us what you think when you get a chance! I'm interested in one, just add a good 4-channel pre and it might be a really good small-format location recorder.

[Jeffguitar]

Originally Posted by Corran

Tell us what you think when you get a chance! I'm interested in one, just add a good 4-channel pre and it might be a really good small-format location recorder.

I believe he got the different recorder, HD16, unless he mistakenly put the wrong model down. The new one is the R16 and can use batteries, which is definitely something I want. The new one records 24/48 too, the HD is only 16/44.

[ofutch]

i'm a proud owner of a HD16 and loving it to be perfectly honest.
Simple to use great memory space and patched with some quality pre's its not sounding too bad either! you get phantom on all channels i mean i dont have 8 condensers but there you go something to speculate to! you also get to hi-z channels for D.Is which is more than handy with synths and basses! unfortunately its only 16/44 rate but there you go its a good purchase i snaked one for £250 aswell!

[Saudade]

ahhhh.....it's finally on the Samson website:

Samson - Zoom - R16

[KingUgly]

Can you use the USB out of the R16 to sync to a midi device? I don't want to sync it to a computer.

[eskimozz]

Well, after much ado, the R16 is finally shipping...Picked one up from sweetwater today...yee-haw

[Saudade]

Originally Posted by eskimozz

Well, after much ado, the R16 is finally shipping...Picked one up from sweetwater today...yee-haw

wow...report back and let us know how it is! By the way, I still don't know if it records at 24bit throughout all 8 tracks simultaneously? And does it actually let you play back X no. of tracks while recording 8?

Been checking the Samson site but the user manual is not up till now

[Happy Musicfan]

I used to be wary of the standalone digital recorders because of lousy mic pre's, puny menus, awkward menu toggling and 512mb flash memory cards. ------- Have they finally evolved ?

[Shureman]

For those waiting for the stork to arrive, here's the manual so you can hit the ground running when UPS knocks later this week.
Download Manual

[Corran]

Originally Posted by Happy Musicfan

I used to be wary of the standalone digital recorders because of lousy mic pre's, puny menus, awkward menu toggling and 512mb flash memory cards. ------- Have they finally evolved ?

Yes - mic pres are usable (not great, but usable), I don't have problems with menus at least on the ones I've used, and right now I have an 8GB SDHC card in my Zoom H4 that I can record up to 8 hours at 48/24.

Can't wait to hear about the R16.

[ofutch]

im currently selling a HD16 on ebay bidding ends today starts at 350 you'll be sure to win though it's not getting much interest :( it's BRAND NEW seriously i've used it a couple of times minimal home recording smoke free lovely piece of kit but im changing my setup so im getting rid of it but honestly i was really happy with the portablility the ease and the free cubase 4 le

[eskimozz]

The R16 arrived today...here are a few first impressions. I'll add more comments as I gather more info.

I read alot about the R16 before buying and it's exactly what I expected out of the box: not built like a tank, but well built. If you're using this on the road you'll have to take care of it or I could see this unit getting banged up pretty good. It's made of 100% hard white plastic, very light, about the size of a laptop. The faders and pots are very "adequate"...could be better, could be worse, there mid rangy, which is perfectly acceptable. Better meters would definitely be appreciated.

Menu navigation seems very good off the bat...Clear, easy to read and intuitive LCD screen. The jog wheel has a nice feel to it. I was up and recording on the internal mic's withought having opened the manual. I'll comment on the preamps when I hook a couple of mics up. The XLR/combi jacks are solid and should withstand quite abit of abuse.

I haven't tried it in interface mode yet. More to come.

Overall, I'm very impressed and satisfied.

[itcamefromiowa]

Thanks for posting eskimozz. That's pretty much what I was hoping to hear. I'll be curious to hear about the pres and the computer interaction but barring any major flaws, I think I'll be getting one of these.

[Vintageblue02]

Originally Posted by itcamefromiowa

Hi all,
This is my first thread, so if I've made some huge breach in etiquette, please forgive and be kind. I was just out looking for a good, silent multitrack recorder for capturing takes then transferring to computer to mix (I've got a noisy G4 Mac, a noisy Fostex HD 16-track, and a Micro-BR which is silent and fun but running everything into a stereo jack is pretty limiting. Ran across the Zoom R16 for $399
ZOOM R16 - Multitrack SD Recorder/Interface/Controller

It looks perfect for me. Plenty of inputs, 24 bit, comes with Cubase (I don't have any software besides the free stuff right now), doubles as a mixing interface for your DAW. Just wondering if anyone has any idea whether this is a quality piece of equipment. I've got an RNP so I have two channels of clean preamp. An SM7b, Rode NT2a, and some other misc dynamics and cheap condensers.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

Perfect! I was scouring the web for deals on used HD-16s and came across the R16! It seemed to good to be true; it's almost everything I need/want from a recorder! Please let us know the quality of the mixes/edits it makes.

I absolutely hate doing desktop/laptop recording/mixing. I've been using my friend's old Fostex MR-8 mkI, and it's a dream to use. My only complaints are:

-Doesn't support CF cards bigger than 2G
-Doesn't have phantom power
-Only 8 tracks
-Only records two at a time

I'm definitely going to save up for the R16 now! My only advice to you would be to spend a lil' $$ and get an ATA/road case for it.