Recommendations for a first small, live mixer

[jPod]

Greetings, all! This is my first post here. Great to be part of this learned and vibrant community.

I'd very much appreciate your recommendations for my first mixer. I'll primarily be using it for live applications but I'll definitely use it at home too. I need a small one, something to take on the road with me. Four XLR mic inputs is actually fine with me.

Prior to visiting here, I was dead set on getting a Mackie. But I've since learned about other brands and thought to ask for your opinion on the matter. Sure, it's my first mixer, but I want one that will last and will be worth the money.

Here are my choices:

Mackie
802-VLZ3 • ProFX12
(Sweetwater links)

Soundcraft
Compact 10 • Soundcraft Spirit M4
(Sweetwater and Guitar Center links)

Allen & Heath
Zed-12FX
(Zzounds link)

I thought I was going to be fine with the VLZ3. But if a little patience and savings can get me the more expensive Soundcraft and A&H boards, then perhaps I can wait some more. Will it be worth it, though?

Naturally, sound quality is important to me but so is durability. Mackies, I hear, are built like tanks but their sound is "just OK", according to some.

And so, before I take the plunge, I'd like to know what you guys think. If it's possible, I'll also try to demo these units at a store. The form factor is also important to me.

Many thanks, guys!

[cavern]

well, since you mentioned live gigs, i would say the a/h. out of those units. they always sound good and they always work well. 2cents worth.

[andersmv]

Originally Posted by cavern

well, since you mentioned live gigs, i would say the a/h. out of those units. they always sound good and they always work well. 2cents worth.

Out of those choices, that's your ticket to ride IMO. Great mixer!

[obscure object]

Allen & Heath Zed-12fx thumbsup

[jPod]

Wow, so far, it's been unanimous! Truth be told, I've never heard about Allen & Heath before coming here. (Shows how much of a newb I am, I guess.) After looking them up here, it seems that they have quite a following.

Originally Posted by Bryan Talbot

Besides, Mackies USED to be built like tanks - not so sure about now.

I saw a YouTube video where they run over one VLZ3 mixer with a car. It still worked! (And that was after they threw it off a building and stepped on it.)

Maybe I'll get a Mackie as a submixer should I need one.

[kooz]

Originally Posted by jPod

I saw a YouTube video where they run over one VLZ3 mixer with a car. It still worked! (And that was after they threw it off a building and stepped on it.)

it worked, but how did it sound? my guess: like someone threw it out of a window and then ran it over with a car.

If you do choose to buy Mackie, go for the VLZ over the ProFX. The Pro is noisy.

[PureAudiouk]

I've got a Soundcraft Folio SX. picked 2 up secondhand dirt cheap!

It's a GREAT tool. It has 12 mono pre-amped ins and 2 stereo line ins.

it's EQ is analogue and basic. Not that tasty, but sturdy. Whatever you get you'll want to get something strong to carry it in to protect your investment.

the pre's on the soundcraft are ok. I've heard and allen and Heath (small mixer, forgot the model) and didn't think there was all that much difference...

Paul

[DannyMac]

I've done live sound for 7 years now and have to say i can't stand A&H give me a mackie onyx any day over the A&H offerings - wooly sounding

[cbarrett92]

After doing a lot of live sound, go for the Zed or the M4. You will really want the faders...

Enjoy,

[lane thaw]

In another life I was a sound engineer for Harrahs. For the smaller venues I would use a beat-up small A&H and it shined. I liked it so much I got my own 16 channel rack version and use it all the time. However, I also have a Midas Venice Board and that would be my first choice if you can afford to step up to their 16 channel rack mounted Venice - great Pres and EQ's.

I am not a Mackie hater at all, and owned and used several. They do have this "sound" to them, not bad, just distinctive. After working with many FOH folks, I would rather listen to a good engineer on a Mackie than a bad one on a Midas H3k.

[jPod]

Thanks, guys! I see the general direction of the comments so far. Hopefully, I get to test all the mixers one of these days.

I guess my only problem with the A&H is that it's a little too big for me. (It's the smallest one they offer.) But not big enough to be an inconvenience. It does look like a fine mixer.

Originally Posted by DannyMac

I've done live sound for 7 years now and have to say i can't stand A&H give me a mackie onyx any day over the A&H offerings - wooly sounding

Interesting. What do you mean "wooly sounding"? Muffled, unclear...?

The Mackie Onyx 1220 caught my eye while I was browsing their website. It's great that it has FireWire. It seems a little bulky though. But I think it would be safe to say that, in terms of quality: Onyx > VLZ3 > ProFX?

Originally Posted by kooz

it worked, but how did it sound? my guess: like someone threw it out of a window and then ran it over with a car.

[...]

LOL I guess. They didn't make recordings with it. They just used some diagnostic tools to test the signal.

Originally Posted by lane thaw

[...] However, I also have a Midas Venice Board and that would be my first choice if you can afford to step up to their 16 channel rack mounted Venice - great Pres and EQ's.

I am not a Mackie hater at all, and owned and used several. They do have this "sound" to them, not bad, just distinctive. After working with many FOH folks, I would rather listen to a good engineer on a Mackie than a bad one on a Midas H3k.

Midas Venice... I'll definitely take a look at it when the time comes for me to upgrade and expand.

Interesting perspective. Pretty much a specific example of "It's not the gear; it's how you use it."

[lerone]

out of these choices, A+H all the way mate!

[Fivewaters]

Originally Posted by DannyMac

I've done live sound for 7 years now and have to say i can't stand A&H give me a mackie onyx any day over the A&H offerings - wooly sounding

According to the sound guys I know, they tell me that the old A&H boards were great. Then one of the other audio companies bought them out and turned them into their cheap line. The name of the company escapes me.

Then A&H was sold back to, I beleive, the originals owners and the quality has greatly improved. So if you buying used, you may want to find out when the board was made. If buying new, no worries.

I would stay away from the Onyx. It's a good sounding board for the price, but the build quality sucks. Our radio station has one and in three years, it's been in the shop three times. The last time was when the board blew up during our radio broadcast.

One of our local nightclubs also had one and like us, ended up with channels whining, etc. They dumped it for a Zed and have been very satisfied with that board.

Hope this helps,
Jeff

[jPod]

Originally Posted by Fivewaters

[...]If buying new, no worries.

I would stay away from the Onyx. [...]

Hope this helps,
Jeff

I think for this particular piece of gear, I'll be opting to get it new. And I think the ZED series is a relatively new product line. (Made public in 2008, I believe.)

Hmm, first time I've ever heard something really negative about the Onyx. Thanks for the heads up.

[bercy]

I have the same problem like jPod, but one entry in my choices list is an Yamaha mixer
MG 124 CX
(thomann link)

What do you think, or what are your experiences with it?
Thank you.

[GZsound]

I recently had a Mackie bite the dust and needed a mixer for my small live sound rack in a hurry. Budget was a concern.

I bought a Yamaha MG206C.. It was four hundred dollars cheaper than an A&H Mixwizard or a Soundcraft FX16.

I also own a Soundcraft 12 channel mixer, a Samson, a Soundcraft 328 digital mixer and two other Yamaha mixers.

The Yamaha MG 206 is a great mixer and for the money is really impressive. It features eight channels of built in compression whiich no other board in that price range offers.. And it works.

I am going to stay away from Mackie until they get their prices in line with the quality and reliability. Both my Soundcraft and Yamaha mixers sound much better than the Mackie mixer that died..

[jPod]

I hear good stuff about Yamaha mixers but I also hear that they're a bit on the fragile side. I don't know if that's accurate.

[Corran]

I really like the Yamaha mixers for a variety of things, so I'd have those as an option. I also happen to be selling a small one for super cheap (shameless plug). PM for details.

[davet]

I just bought a used Ashly MX-508 and I must say it's a real nice mixer. The build quailty is excellent, pots and switches feel real solid. The mixer sounds good, preamps are decent, and it's real quiet.

They build a smaller version with 6 channels, worth checking out. BTW, I've owned small Mackie & A&H mixers. The MX-508 is a superior product. Works great in my studio.
DaveT

[GZsound]

Originally Posted by jPod

I hear good stuff about Yamaha mixers but I also hear that they're a bit on the fragile side. I don't know if that's accurate.

Not in my experience...

[jnobucks]

I second that on the ASHLY!
I had small format mackie, soundcraft and (shudder) Alesis mixers in my home studio and had various issues. Finally I decided I wanted a simple mixer that was SUPER clean and great build.
I picked up an ASHLY MX-406 and it was perfect.
I've moved on to a bigger studio and considering selling my ASHLY if you are interested in that route. PM me if you are.

[trompetfreak]

First of all I'm not a Soundcraft fan... Aspecially the Spirit's just don't sound and feel good.
A&H on the other hand always works, it sounds decent and the pre's are not very noisy.
I know A&H mixers that have been in the toughest of live-situations, in and out flightcases, being used as ashtray and operated by idiots... The desk is alive and as-new for 9 years allready...