Dual outputs for Millennia?

[locutus]

Has anyone come up with a good(TM) solution for dual outputs from a Millennia or similar mic pre? I have thought of cable splitters, but I can think of various electrical issues which might be regretful. I have pondered an after-market mod, but I don't want to kill my warranty just yet.

For backup recorder, I currently have to take a split post ADC, which is less than optimal. I have sometimes regretted not getting the Grace instead for this feature alone. I suppose to be fully redundant, I should double mic and everything. It seems a bit inelegant though.

I certainly would love a sexy little red Hux box like David Spearritt has, but I don't think it would fit in my checkbook right now.

What do y'all use?

Thanks. Nathan

[surflounge]

Hux is slutty!

[mpdonahue]

Well, the new HV3R has 3 buffered outputs available.
We've installed 6 of them here at the Mariinsky and they seem to work fine. The software and basic functions work OK, but there are a couple of glaring defects in the user interface.
The PC software is nice with meters for each channel and a decent display of parameters. However one of the HUGE problems is that if you lose power, the unit does not return to it's last state on power up. We lost power and lost all our gain settings!!! You can save the setup in the PC, but the power up issue is a big one.
All the best,
-mark

[Baithak]

Hi Nathan:
Many years ago when I was buying my HV3, the guys at Millenia told me that they did not think using a Y cable was a big issue; in fact they made me a set of Y cables which I still use when I need the split. Then just to be nice, they also made me a Y cable that combined two channels into one ... I haven't yet tried that one after all these years.

I believe now you can send yours to the factory and get an extra set of buffered outputs installed ... but perhaps this is only for the newer models.

Baithak

[7rojo7]

half normaled patch bay works fine, Y cables work just as well. It's mixing together that presents somewhat of a problem

[locutus]

Originally Posted by mpdonahue

Well, the new HV3R has 3 buffered outputs available.

In my thinking it's odd that they chose to first include multiple outputs on the remote controlled version. It seems they would be more needed in the non-remote version since I have never seen anyone put multiple recorders on-stage. Maybe it is just the higher price tag which justifies the extra components.

Sorry to hear bugs aren't quite worked out of the software yet. It seems like a great product. I hope it gets straightened out soon.

Thanks for the info.
Nathan

[locutus]

Originally Posted by Baithak

the guys at Millenia told me that they did not think using a Y cable was a big issue.

That's interesting to hear that they endorsed the Y-cable. My use is for location recording and live events where things are less predictable than a studio, and less repeatable. Sometimes the second recorder is located a distance away, or something. When I think through scenarios which could cause me to lose a recorder, connection, ADC, etc., many situations that could cause a loss or glitch on one recorder, could also take out the other, such as signal spikes, noise, pops, or dropouts. If a power or signal line gets broken at the wrong moment, both sides would feel it. Dual buffered outputs would not protect against everything, but more.

I am probably just being paranoid, but it is part of my job. I do haul a backup for a reason. I am reconsidering the use of a y-cable, though.

What do other millennia (and DAV, crookwood, whatever pre) users do for backup splits? y-cables? Post ADC? Magic red boxes?

[Remoteness]

We Wye the output of preamplifiers all the time.
We have never had a problem as of yet.
I'll keep you posted if we do.

[aussie_techie]

Originally Posted by locutus

In my thinking it's odd that they chose to first include multiple outputs on the remote controlled version.

even if the recording primary and backup split is further from the unit having buffered outputs lets a pre on stage double as an active splitter. separate buffered outputs would be far more important between live and recording rigs than they are for primary and backup recorders where Y-Splits would usually be fine.

i havnt used the remote controlled Millennia but i have been in situation that have required this kind of thing be done.

mpdonahue, that does sound like a big oversight to the Millennia design

to the OP if the split is between your own system a Y split is usually fine, buffered or isolated feeds are more important if you have to interface with another system as well.

[fifthcircle]

Millennia preamps are usually pretty tolerant of splitting the output. I've even run them into mic level splitters without isssue. I cannot say the same about other brands of pres- when this is done, I have had issues with motorboating and such. To deal with that, I've built cables with resistors in them to help deal with the load on the output.

Millennias, though, have never needed any of that. Plug it in and it works. Pretty simple

If only the rest of the system was that reliable

--Ben

[klaukholm]

I think millennia will install a an extra set of dsub output if you send it to them. i would suggest having the level out be atleast 6dB lower so you have a safety should the levels blow.

[locutus]

Thanks for the input. I guess I will have to try out some passive splitter cables soon.

The 6dB down backup is a great idea too, but not so easy with just cables. (I suppose I could add a resistor set on one side...) For now I can do it easily enough with ADC gain.

Regards.
Nathan

[Jim vanBergen]

Yup, I have discussed with them before- they will do a second set of outputs on either XLRs or dsubs for a small additional fee.

[locutus]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

Yup, I have discussed with them before- they will do a second set of outputs on either XLRs or dsubs for a small additional fee.

Good to know. I would like to do this in the future. I can't bear to part with my Millennia right at the beginning of the spring concert season. But this sounds like the right solution for long-term.

...and then I want a Hux box.... and then....

[dualflip]

Heres one option with dual outputs and built-in compressors Edax Audio Labs

[Remoteness]

Cool looking box and it has dual outputs which is a very good thing, but what about the sonic quality of this device?

Does it sound like a Millennia? If not, what does it actually sound like?

Originally Posted by dualflip

Heres one option with dual outputs and built-in compressors Edax Audio Labs

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Cool looking box and it has dual outputs which is a very good thing, but what about the sonic quality of this device?

Does it sound like a Millennia? If not, what does it actually sound like?

I've worked with the Max800 a couple of times, its is transparent as hell!, thats why i suggested it, because i thought that anyone who uses a Millennia would be looking for a transparent uncolored sound.

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by locutus

Good to know. I would like to do this in the future. I can't bear to part with my Millennia right at the beginning of the spring concert season. But this sounds like the right solution for long-term.

...and then I want a Hux box.... and then....

I am sure millennia will have it back to you in no-time.
I would say it's the simplest, best sounding, and most reliable solution.

[fifthcircle]

Originally Posted by dualflip

Heres one option with dual outputs and built-in compressors Edax Audio Labs

Cool... Gotta look into giving one of these bad boys a test drive. Looks quite interesting, though.

--Ben

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by dualflip

I've worked with the Max800 a couple of times, its is transparent as hell!, thats why i suggested it, because i thought that anyone who uses a Millennia would be looking for a transparent uncolored sound.

Isn't the MAX800 an eight channel tube preamplifier?

Now I really want to hear this since you say it has a transparent uncolored sound.

If you're right, that's pretty awesome for a tube preamp - usually tube pres have a "sound."

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Isn't the MAX800 an eight channel tube preamplifier?

Now I really want to hear this since you say it has a transparent uncolored sound.

If you're right, that's pretty awesome for a tube preamp - usually tube pres have a "sound."

Yes it is an eight channel tube preamp, just as the avalon that works with tubes and is also transparent, but yeah i know what you mean, but in the end, what really matters is the design.

[KAJI]

Hi Nathan.

What Millenia unit do you have? If it's an HV-3D there are additional output slots (I think they come with blanks) and you can buy some XLR connector points, open the unit and split the outputs. I've done it. Beware different ranging input impedances of the devices you drive (main recorder,A/D,backup recorder) they should be high and similar in order to maintain relatively the same signal for both splits.

Also analogue Y cables should be good but I find it nice to have the dual output handy always and with no extra cables.

Let us know how it's going.

Peace

[KAJI]

Originally Posted by dualflip

Heres one option with dual outputs and built-in compressors Edax Audio Labs

This looks beautiful. Same question as Remoteness, does this thing sound like a Millenia? The M2B (also transformerless tube pre) is super quiet, super clean, just beautiful, I wonder if the MAX-800 is too. Millenia is also more expensive/ch, that should say something.

Anyone tried the Edax?

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by KAJI

This looks beautiful. Same question as Remoteness, does this thing sound like a Millenia? The M2B (also transformerless tube pre) is super quiet, super clean, just beautiful, I wonder if the MAX-800 is too. Also more expensive/ch.

Anyone tried the Edax?

I havent placed both Millenia and Edax side by side, but i can tell you that the Max800 is transformless, and very clean and transparent, the onboard compressors feature both Fet and Opto modes selectable by a switch, i've spoke with the designer and he says he tried to emulate the 1176 type of compressor on the Fet mode, but without being an atempt of copying the 1176. The compressors are very nice actually, i believe he has a cheaper version without the compressors. Ohhh BTW did i mentioned Edax is a Mexican brand?, although the designer is from argentina, living in Mexico, he used to work at Manley, very nice freaky guy.

[KAJI]

Originally Posted by dualflip

the onboard compressors feature both Fet and Opto modes selectable by a switch

I find this convenient and cool on an 8 ch pre.

Originally Posted by dualflip

Ohhh BTW did i mentioned Edax is a Mexican brand?, although the designer is from argentina, living in Mexico, he used to work at Manley, very nice freaky guy.

Muy interesante!

[locutus]

Originally Posted by KAJI

What Millenia unit do you have? If it's an HV-3D there are additional output slots (I think they come with blanks) and you can buy some XLR connector points, open the unit and split the outputs. I've done it.

This is an HV-3C. I don't use the 130v blank slots, but I can keep it external with cables for now. No issues yet.

Beware different ranging input impedances of the devices you drive (main recorder,A/D,backup recorder) they should be high and similar in order to maintain relatively the same signal for both splits.

Yeah, I am aware of a number of potential problems that could crop up in some situations. For now I have had to switch my backup ADC to use variable gain control, instead of fixed level, to accommodate this. Not a big deal.

As I said, the best solution is clearly to get separate buffered outputs. I will pursue this when I have a gap in my schedule. But maybe by then Millennia will have released the internal ADC for the HV-3C. One set analog, one set digital would also work nice.

Thanks again for the input.
Nathan

[Arkhe]

The Best 8 Channel preamp in the market. Hailz Max 800!!!!

Why?
Personalized Service
Variable Architecture
Completely Analog, hardwire with 32 releases
8 Compressors with 2 options each channel (Fet/Optical)
Compressor Bypass
Preamp Bypass For Mixing
Toroidal Transformers for Humm cancelation
Headroom 32DB without Distortion

Plus things like typical preamps have like phantom power, phase reverse etc..

soooo i think is the best option so clean so quite so niceeeee, i already have one and a masterhead coming soon yeaaa!!!!

[7rojo7]

if you put a Y cable at the end of the output cable you'll save on cable costs (or snake channels) and clutter.
It's as simple as it gets. Half normalled patch bay might be even simpler.
great pre ssuggestions here though.

[MBishopSFX]

We split our Millennia preamps with "Y" cables all the time with no problems whatsoever.

.

[johnlagrou]

Originally Posted by mpdonahue

Well, the new HV3R has 3 buffered outputs available.
We've installed 6 of them here at the Mariinsky and they seem to work fine. The software and basic functions work OK, but there are a couple of glaring defects in the user interface.
The PC software is nice with meters for each channel and a decent display of parameters. However one of the HUGE problems is that if you lose power, the unit does not return to it's last state on power up. We lost power and lost all our gain settings!!! You can save the setup in the PC, but the power up issue is a big one.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We addressed this issue. User can now select "last-setting" power-loss recovery for all channels in the micamp network (up to 792 channels auto-saved). You should have received your firmware update by now.

And to answer the original poster's question, both the HV-3D and HV-3R 8-ch micamp outputs can be passive split without problem. The only caveat is when your two destinations have widely different input impedances. That could be an issue.

We also have an 8-ch active splitter option that can installed inside the HV-3D and HV-3R which effectively triples each channel's output stage, giving you a total of 24 channels active-buffered outputs per 8-ch rack. This is a popular mod with big events where the stage micamps are split to FOH, monitor, and a recording rig.

We are also shipping the 8-ch internal A/D converter options for the HV-3D and HV-3R micamps. The new converters sound beautiful.

JL