Edirol R-44 users - beware firmware bug (MS on 3/4)

[Ozpeter]

I'm posting this here as there could well be members who employ Mid Side mic techniques using the R-44.

There are now three independent reports of a firmware (presumably) bug in the R-44, and I think that it's safe to take it as confirmed. I've tested it throughly myself and I'm convinced there's a significant problem.

The bug only affect the MS effect if used on channels 3 & 4.

If you use MS on 1 & 2 only there is no problem. If you don't use MS at all, there's even less of a problem!

In essence, the MS effect when applied to channels 3 & 4 gives you mid only on both those channels.

If you use the effect during recording, it will mean that your recording will be irretrievable, as the incorrect processing of the channels will be written to the card.

If you use the effect during playback only, playback from the R-44 will be incorrect as you'll only hear the mid channel. However, if you use your DAW for post-processing, and you did not use the effect on record, then you'll be able to use a suitable VST to rescue the recording (typically, Voxengo MSED which is free). But the sound will be incorrect when monitoring during recording, as no dematrixing of the MS to XY is taking place.

I'm about to email Edirol in Australia about this and they have proved responsive to previous comments - I expect them to contact Edirol in Japan and get a firmware upgrade developed to overcome this problem. If anyone here has a better contact and cares to put in another report, please go for it!

[leddy]

I noticed an issue with mine. I don't use MS during recording, I only matrix it in post. I really just monitor the mid mic. I happened to try to use the MS on playback to hear it before I transfered files to my PC. No big deal for my purposes, but I was confused why it wouldn't work. Thanks for posting this.

[Ozpeter]

Edirol Australia replied to my email within about 5 minutes, to say they'd passed on my report to R & D - so they're on the case promptly, which is good.

[Ozpeter]

I've now heard that Edirol R&D are fixing this bug and a firmware upgrade will be available in the next couple of months.

[JEGG]

They (Edirol, R4 genre, whatever) seem to have a history of overlooking things. I believe the original R4 had one channel with reversed polarity.

They did fix them, though, and that's what's important.

[Ozpeter]

They did fix them, though, and that's what's important.

Indeed - I've found Edirol incredibly responsive - the local office always responds to an email within a few hours, and if they forward it to Edirol Japan, they typically respond from there in 24-48 hours with notable courtesy.

[leddy]

Off-topic, but I've been having trouble with my R44 picking up interference. I think it's from nearby cell phones? It's like a buzzing that last for a few second. It could destroy a good take. I always turn my phone off. How far away can another phone be and still cause issues?

I can post a sample of the noise if need be.

Edit:
I did some tests and found it was more likely to have been caused by some mics.

I can get the R44 to make the noise, but only when the cell phone is within a few inches. The mics made the noise from 10 feet away. Sorry for bad info.

[Ozpeter]

Another heads-up re R-44 bugs - this time it concerns using the pre-record feature and effects.

If you use the MS effect when recording, and you use the pre-record buffer, the content of the buffer when written to the recording does not go through the effects. So the stereo image suddenly jumps to its correct alignment at the point where the recording switches over from the pre-record buffer to real time. For example, if you have the pre-record buffer set to 11 seconds, the first 11 seconds of the recording will have incorrect MS dematrixing, and then the remainder will be correct.

I've not tried other effects to see whether all are affected in this way, but it's distinctly possible.

Once again, I've put in a bug report to Edirol. Hopefully this can be addressed with a firmware fix, but it's possible that the pre-record buffer is hardwired the wrong side of the effects, in which case it won't be fixable...

[NorseHorse]

Edirol should put you on staff!

[leddy]

Originally Posted by leddy

Off-topic, but I've been having trouble with my R44 picking up interference. I think it's from nearby cell phones? It's like a buzzing that last for a few second. It could destroy a good take. I always turn my phone off. How far away can another phone be and still cause issues?

I can post a sample of the noise if need be.

Here's a sample:

[Ozpeter]

I've now heard from Edirol that the problem with effects not being applied to pre-record buffer audio will also be fixed in the upcoming firmware release.

[sonidista]

Originally Posted by leddy

Off-topic, but I've been having trouble with my R44 picking up interference. I think it's from nearby cell phones? It's like a buzzing that last for a few second. It could destroy a good take. I always turn my phone off. How far away can another phone be and still cause issues?

I've had a similar problem during recording once.

[JEGG]

Leddy-if you're still reading...

I heard your clip but only on a laptop.

1. Does this noise occur on the same channel(s), or all channels?

2. Is it confined to a specific mic or model of mic?

3. Are your mic cables wired such that the XLR shell is wired to the screen?

Any other news on this?

[lbartram]

Check their site. I don't know if it fixes specific bugs with M/S, or not.

[Ozpeter]

Memo to self - must check the firmware upgrade this weekend! It certainly fixes the marker problems, haven't tested it to see if other bugs are fixed.

[springer]

Hey leddy,
Read page 5 of the manual "Placement"

...appears they left out shielding from the unit to squeeze in those all important internal speakers and mics...

[springer]

After recording a friend's rehearsal yesterday I will be comparing the following 4 track methods available on this unit:
4 - individual 24/44.1K tracks
1 - 24/96 (4tracks in one wav file?? apparently the SW within the unit can decode this)

via the analog RCA out.

I was baffle why I couldn't monitor some of the tracks in non-mono - turned out to be my faulty headphones. LOVELY....

[springer]

Using NiMh batts last night with jazz trio. I got the first set effortlessly (90 mins). The started it back up for the second set and batt indicator was at 3/4 power - hmmm not bad... 3 mins into second set...

-SZPLAT-

Unit powers off with no warning. I swap batts and record again but lost the first song. I can understand if it dies at 1/4 power or even half, but at 3/4 power there must be better power managment code than that...

Should I file bug?
Norse - this happen to you ever?
BTW - I am at the FW level from the current webpage.