How to record this trio?

[Simon]

Hi everybody,

I'm planig to record a trio.
It's a kind of a radio play with musical accompaniment (jazz tendency).
There is one female speaker who tells a story and two musicans, a double bass player and a transverse flute player who also plays Sopran-Saxophon.
They will all perform together, so i can't record them single.
I will record them in a medium recording room, the room is maybee 4m x 8m.

The following mics are available:

1 x Neumann TLM 193
2 x AKG C 414
2 x AKG C 451
2 x Shure Beta 91
2 x SE Electronics SE 3

My thoughts:
For the double bass i would place the TLM 193 in front of the bass with a distance of maybe 50cm.
For the transverse flute and sopran-sax player i would use 2 of the akg c451 mics, one pointed at the horn and the other poninted at the hands of the player where the keys are.
For the speaker i would use the akg c 414.
Also is it good to take additionally a maybe AB technic to capture the whole sound?
Would you place room mics (shure beta 91)?
Or do you think this is way too much mics for this reason?


Sorry for my bad english description, and thanx for your help,

Simon

[PlugHead]

Interesting. I understand the narrator/vocalist to be recorded 'live' at the same time as the musicians? If so, positioning of the players would be integral to balancing a stereo recording - if they have not set their staging, I'd consider placing them in a triangle/semi-circle, with the narrator/vocals in front aiming forward, and the flute and bass behind/to the side(s) a bit, facing slightly outwards from each other (30-45 deg.), but with enough eye contact peripherally to see one other - adjust according to the player's needs/comfort. This might help afford a bit more isolation, and add some depth to the stereo field...

For this setup, I'd consider using the SE SDC's as a stereo pr. - either X/Y and position accordingly to have a variable stereo perspective, or possibly a spaced pr. - I'd prefer the 414's for that duty, but (in this case) I'd use the 414's for spot mics on bass and voice. I'd put the TLM193 on the flute/sop. sax, a foot or so in front of the instrument(s), around chest height. You could also place a Shure beta 91 on the floor (depending on the material) or on plexiglass/plywood directly in front/underneath the bass, put a low-pass on it (at mixdown) and add it's low frequency 'weight' to taste, and blend with the spot mic (414) - low-pass will help phase issues, but beware.

We just named our newborn son Simon - great name!

Good luck, and I hope this helps.

[jnorman]

hmm - lots of options here, but i might try setting the two players together opposite the voice person so they are facing each other. use an ORTF pair of the 414s about 6-8 feet out from the bass and flute. use the TLM193 for the vocal work at about 12-18". add a spot on the bass about 1.5-2 feet out. do not spot the flute. only use the bass spot to add definition to the ORTF sound - just a tad.

or you could try a single blumlein pair of 414s setup between the players and the vocal, with the voice about 2 feet away from the backside of the blumlein, and the players about 6 feet from the other side of the blumlein pair. you may still want to spot the bass for clarity.

[Simon]

thanx a lot guys and congratulation PlugHead for your newborn son, good choice with the name ;-)

hmm i'm not shure at all what way i should choose, the thing is i'm not really experienced at all.
What would you consider the safest way?

jnorman your idea sounds quite nice to me recording the bass and flute with an ORTF setup (didn't spot the flute at all?). what did you mean exactly with spotting the bass, putting the shure beta 91 on the floor 1-2feet infront of the bass , right?

the blumlein option i don't wanna try cause i've never tried it before and i don't have so much time on that date for recording.

best regards,
simon

[jnorman]

not sure about using the beta for the bass spot, but you can try it. i might use one of the 451s, or one of the SE's.

[c.gymer]

Definitely all about where the people are with this one. In fact, I'd say that microphones are quite the secondary consideration in this case.

I know your wary of trying it but the Blumlien pair would be my suggestion too, as the positioning of the players is going to be critical however you go about it.

Pleas share pics etc when this is done because I'd love to know how it turns out!

[PlugHead]

IMO, stereo recording the session is a good thing too, but - if you have more inputs and mics than 2 channels - why not record with spots and a close vocal/narration mic? This is to be a "radio play" styled session, correct? I can't recall ever hearing one without a close mic on the narration...

If stereo AND spot micing happens, and you don't like the spots - don't use them...

HOWEVER - if you find the voice is too roomy and doesn't have the clarity or bite needed, or the bass is too blossomy/boomy, yet you don't want to dial any more low end out of the mix because it kills the voice/flute, etc., etc., etc.

My point is - more options at tracking and at mixdown are better than less...

BTW - I meant using the beta 91 as it's intended use - a boundary mic - placed close in front/below the bass - on a hard/reflective surface, and blending it in the mix (lo-passed to avoid phase issues) if you need more beef in the bottom end.

Let us know how the session works out!

[slaphappygarry]

I had something similar recently.

What I did was leave the musicians and narrator to set themselves up where they were comfortable and then place my mics as required.

Its is amazing how many times this gets you going (sometimes it doesn't work at all) and how many times it turns out to be 90% the way there regarding spacing. The musicians will naturally give themselves space, visual line of sight and, oddy, enough of an area big enough to let their intrument breathe (even if they do not know what they are doing).

I advise you try it at least and then advise them if it is not working.

Good luck

G

[Simon]

Good tipp slaphappygarry.

Mybe i will leave them set themselves up, since they are all professionals and feeling comfortable as musician is very important for me.


I will definetly spot the narrator, i think with the tlm193.

Also i think i will set up all the mics, no matter if i will use them in the mixdown, since inputs are not he problem (i will rcord with a neve vr legend )

The recording is on the 14 february so i have a little bit time to think about your tipps.
I will see if can make some photos or upload a sample.

Thanx for your help,
Simon

[mixedupsteve]

I heard something like this on NPR last month. The narrator was close miced and the musicians sounded much farther away. I'm sure it was intentional. Cool sound though.