Soprano & piano recordings

[Melodioso]

Hello,

Would some of you be so kind and share their experience with recording a soprano + piano (or any "classical" voice + piano)? I sometime kind of struggle to position them nicely, so that while still having eyes contact, they face the hall and there isn't too much bleed on the spot mics.

My technique for this so far has been:

- one omni pair in A-B to capture the sound of the ambience/hall
- one ldc for spot mic'ing the soprano
- one bluemlein pair for spot mic'ing the piano

I first place the omnis and find the sweet spot between soprano + piano + hall, then place the spot mics 2-3 feet in front of them. I like to have spot mics for the details they bring in, although I know some of you prefer just having one pair and that's it.

Any details on your experience is appreciated! Thanks!

Mel

[Kjetilhd]

Here's a technique I have done from time to time:

Using nosecone on my dpa 4003 so they are 100% omnies in all frequencises and point them upwards, I place the soloist on the opposite side of the main pair. Now I can adjust the distance to the piano and soloist individually and it still sounds as if they are in the same place. They have better communication as they can have eyecontact. Haven't tried to use spot mics on this setup, but I imagine that would work just fine. Keep in mind that you have to use omnies that are completely linear on and off axis. Otherwise one of the sides of the main pair will suffer from light to severe coloration.



Kjetil

[springer]

Singers and their accompnist are usually standard about positioning. Singer is usually in the "belly" (curve) of the piano. Simply put your pair of mics (ORTF,XY,etc...) 2-3 meters in front of them and let them do their thing. Anything more allows you tad more control in post but most 'legit' types of performers prefer to have this setup.
THEY control the music. ...as it should be.

[GKennedy]

I have had pretty good results with this sort of thing by getting the singer to take a step or two further forward than they would be for a recital and putting a pair on the singer. I usually start off with ORTF but recently have been using closer spacings so the singer sounds more on mic. I tried TLM170s the other week and found I have to have them closer in than i usually would. In the past I have used sanken cu41s which were awsome and schoeps mk4s which were pretty good.

With the singer forward I find I have 100% of the vocal sound and 80% of the piano sound. This gives me room to add in a piano pair which are usually B&K 4006s off the tail.

GK

[jnorman]

i'm with springer - an ORTF pair about 7-8 feet out, no spots.

[Corran]

The last couple vocal/piano recitals I've done were just single A-B pair about 2 feet apart and 4 feet in front of the stage (about 8 feet from the singer then). Worked pretty well - might have been a little better just slightly forward (the hall sound is a bit too thick, listening to it now). Was there any reason you wanted spots?

You mentioned eye contact. I don't think I've been to a recital here that the vocalist really needed to see the piano player.

[Melodioso]

Thanks to all for the replies!

I'm pretty happy with the results I got, but am always interested in what other people are doing. The reason for using spot mics, is that they do bring some details that are otherwise lost (imho). But 85-90% of the sound comes from the main pair I would say (Schoeps MK2/CMC6).

There's this CD, a DECCA release called "Renée Flemming: The Schubert Album". It sounds wonderful, and is my reference CD for soprano/piano music. It was recorded by Graham Meek in Tanglewood in 1996, and mixed by John Dunkerley. That is sound sound I'm trying to achieve. Maybe it was just a single pair!

P.S: by eye contact, I meant more that they are aware of each other, they breath together. Of course they don't stare at each other the whole time :-)

[David Spearritt]

My benchmark sound is also a Decca CD called Fairest Isle by Barbara Bonney. It is the most beautiful recorded sound of a soprano I have ever heard.

Would love to know more about this recording.

[rubycakes]

Originally Posted by Corran

You mentioned eye contact. I don't think I've been to a recital here that the vocalist really needed to see the piano player.

You're kidding right? Having eye contact is a natural, normal part of being a communicative musician. They COULD, of course, perform without eye contact but they will be able to perform musically if they do have eye contact.

It's interesting reading these comments as if the presence of the musicians was an inconvenience to the recordists. "Could you just move up please?" "Oh you don't need to see the accompanist". "This will work better for the recording if you disregard all of your previous musical training and accustomed practice". I think the recordist should have to perform once and a while to remember what it's like.

[Corran]

Um, the accompanist follows the singer. The singer is as expressive as they want to be (though of course they rehearse this plenty of times).

I thought the OP meant possibly the singer was physically looking back at the piano player at all times. And besides, if the singer keeps glancing back you'd get a drop in volume everytime, in both the mains and any spots you have!

This is just my experience in seeing hundreds of recitals from singers as a music major. I don't think any of them looked back at the pianist except to cue the start of the piece...

[rubycakes]

So "seeing lots of recitals" as a music major do you actually perform yourself or just observe?

There is also the tradition of having the vocalist in the crook of the piano and there is communication (nonverbal) between pianist and vocalist.

[Corran]

Yeah I do, and in general I don't look at the pianist, I just cue them with motions. I play flute, so I said "I've seen" a lot of vocal recitals (and recorded many too).

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by Corran

And besides, if the singer keeps glancing back you'd get a drop in volume everytime, in both the mains and any spots you have!

That's why I usually put up a spot at the singer's side, about as far from singer as the main pair. Singer turns to pianist --> Turns away from main pair --> Turns towards spot --> only very light riding necessary.