Recording bands in rehearsal spaces

[ThomasWho]

Hi , I`m trying to put together a very small and portable rig for tracking bands in their rehearsal spaces. We`re talking "carry it on the subway" type small. One rackbag for interface and laptop. One bag for mics , headsets and cables.

I`m thinking about the Mackie Onyx 1200f - any of you guys use it for this purpose? It`s 4 headphone outs seem ideal for giving musicians separate mixes. But I can`t be shure about latency etc until I get some reports from users around here. Anyone?

As for mics , I want to use as many clip-ons as I can to avoid having to carry mic stands. I`m assuming the rehearsalroom has at least ONE micstand that I can use for a Røde NT4 mic for OH .
Any of you guys ever use clip-ons for snare , for instance? I´ve heard about the Shure Beta 98 D/S and could try to get about 4 of those for this rig. Any thoughts?


Any inpur appreciated.

Thomas

[Roland]

Originally Posted by ThomasWho

Hi , I`m trying to put together a very small and portable rig for tracking bands in their rehearsal spaces. We`re talking "carry it on the subway" type small. One rackbag for interface and laptop. One bag for mics , headsets and cables.

I`m thinking about the Mackie Onyx 1200f - any of you guys use it for this purpose? It`s 4 headphone outs seem ideal for giving musicians separate mixes. But I can`t be shure about latency etc until I get some reports from users around here. Anyone?

As for mics , I want to use as many clip-ons as I can to avoid having to carry mic stands. I`m assuming the rehearsalroom has at least ONE micstand that I can use for a Røde NT4 mic for OH .
Any of you guys ever use clip-ons for snare , for instance? I´ve heard about the Shure Beta 98 D/S and could try to get about 4 of those for this rig. Any thoughts?


Any inpur appreciated.

Thomas

I think it's a nice idea, however, trying to avoid carrying mic stands and using only clip-on mic's I think you will find will be too much of a compromise. The Beta 98's are great, I own several myself, however they are not going to be suitable for BD, wouldn't be my choice for snare, you still have to consider vocalists, brass players, guitarists, bass, keys etc. As for the latency, there are several devices such as the RME stuff that is suitably low latency, though this depends on the number of tracks you are recording and the amount and type of processors that you are using, and of course the power of your laptop. I would consider possibly going for a compact small rig, rather than a fit in a rucksack type.

Regards


Roland

[ThomasWho]

Thanks Roland , I agree with you , using ALL clip-ons is a stretch. I`ll be carrying 57`s and 58`s too (or similar mics) and ask in advance how many mic stands the rehearsal space has. Hopefully I won`t have to carry any of my own if they have 2-3 .

Have you used your Beta98`s on the beater side of a kick? I`m considering this and using a triggered sound for the bottom end ( instead of an inside mic) . I`m assuming I will need to fix a lot in the mix and trigger sounds anyway , so why not make it easier on myself in the recording stage ?

As I mentioned , I`ll be going into rehearsal spaces doing inde low-budget stuff so the acoustic enviroment won`t be ideal for great drumtracks anyway.

Thomas

[Don S]

The FireFace800 would be excellent for this! Single space, 10 analog inputs, multiple outputs for headphone mixes and relatively inexpensive. If you need more, get a Mackie 800r. you'll be up to 18 in 2 spaces.

[Roland]

Originally Posted by ThomasWho

Thanks Roland , I agree with you , using ALL clip-ons is a stretch. I`ll be carrying 57`s and 58`s too (or similar mics) and ask in advance how many mic stands the rehearsal space has. Hopefully I won`t have to carry any of my own if they have 2-3 .

Have you used your Beta98`s on the beater side of a kick? I`m considering this and using a triggered sound for the bottom end ( instead of an inside mic) . I`m assuming I will need to fix a lot in the mix and trigger sounds anyway , so why not make it easier on myself in the recording stage ?

As I mentioned , I`ll be going into rehearsal spaces doing inde low-budget stuff so the acoustic enviroment won`t be ideal for great drumtracks anyway.

Thomas

You could use any mic with a tight pattern, even a second-hand contact mic to record as a trigger for a sample, however triggering samples from a BD track isn't quite as straight forward as rolling the track through Drumagog, this will take more time and actually make the job more complicated than need be. One option would be to use the Beta 91 placed inside the drum, however this won't work for all drums and situations. Possibly you need to rethink your "business model" slightly, as much as I think you have a point there are good reason's why there are not hundreds of guy's out there doing it this way.

Regards


Roland

[swafford]

Originally Posted by ThomasWho

Hi , I`m trying to put together a very small and portable rig for tracking bands in their rehearsal spaces. We`re talking "carry it on the subway" type small. One rackbag for interface and laptop. One bag for mics , headsets and cables.

I`m thinking about the Mackie Onyx 1200f - any of you guys use it for this purpose? It`s 4 headphone outs seem ideal for giving musicians separate mixes. But I can`t be shure about latency etc until I get some reports from users around here. Anyone?

As for mics , I want to use as many clip-ons as I can to avoid having to carry mic stands. I`m assuming the rehearsalroom has at least ONE micstand that I can use for a Røde NT4 mic for OH .
Any of you guys ever use clip-ons for snare , for instance? I´ve heard about the Shure Beta 98 D/S and could try to get about 4 of those for this rig. Any thoughts?


Any inpur appreciated.

Thomas

I'd go Metric Halo 2882, mics as described; headphones for just the singer; mic stands in a golf bag (with wheels!).

[NorseHorse]

Actually, there are quite a number of guys in the DC/VA area doing this. If you're interested, go for it.

[ThomasWho]

Originally Posted by swafford

I'd go Metric Halo 2882, mics as described; headphones for just the singer; mic stands in a golf bag (with wheels!).

Love the golf bag idea. See , practial suggestions like that are just what I need.

As for interfaces , I have the Prism Orpheus. (I realize it might seem strange to ask about a Mackie interface when I already have the Orpheus , but the Mackie has more ins/outs , headphones etc.. And it means I could leave the Prism safely in my studio). If I used the Orpheus for this I`d have to buy at least 4 extra preamps for 8 in. Or I could get the Mackie 800r and go Adat into the Prism...



Thomas

[valleysound]

You want to isolate the mics from the drums or any other instrument. The vibrations will travel through the clip. Do some critical listening test with and without a clip to the drum and you should hear the difference.

[ThomasWho]

Originally Posted by valleysound

You want to isolate the mics from the drums or any other instrument. The vibrations will travel through the clip. Do some critical listening test with and without a clip to the drum and you should hear the difference.

So you`re saying never use clip-on mics? Then I respectfully disagree. Shure they are a compromise but I`m talking about recording bands in their rehearsal rooms , not getting great drumtones in the studio.

T

[lastsong]

bass / keys just DI.

for guitars (hopefully i can explain this) get a piece metal "L" shaped and put a threaded mic mount at the bottom of one of the sides. this works good with sennheiser 609 mics (the flat ones) just slip it between the cab/head or ground/cab. maybe you can buy these instead of making it?

for the drums you can get a 3 pack of sennheiser 604 mics, they come mounted with clips. for what you are doing using one of those for the snare will be fine also. for the kick use whatever "kick" mic and a small paperweight style stand.

in these situations omni mics can be nice too if amp volumes are even and the drummer hits hard and consistant. maybe just one in the center of the room LOW to the ground about kick drum high or PZM mics on each side of the room. and PZM won't need a stand!!!! just put em on the floor. if you are worried about rumble from clip mounted mics experiment with high pass filters if your board has them

[ThomasWho]

Originally Posted by lastsong

bass / keys just DI.

for guitars (hopefully i can explain this) get a piece metal "L" shaped and put a threaded mic mount at the bottom of one of the sides. this works good with sennheiser 609 mics (the flat ones) just slip it between the cab/head or ground/cab. maybe you can buy these instead of making it?

for the drums you can get a 3 pack of sennheiser 604 mics, they come mounted with clips. for what you are doing using one of those for the snare will be fine also. for the kick use whatever "kick" mic and a small paperweight style stand.

in these situations omni mics can be nice too if amp volumes are even and the drummer hits hard and consistant. maybe just one in the center of the room LOW to the ground about kick drum high or PZM mics on each side of the room. and PZM won't need a stand!!!! just put em on the floor. if you are worried about rumble from clip mounted mics experiment with high pass filters if your board has them

Thanks Adam , good idea with that metal clamp thing.

Did you ever try hanging a 57 on an amp , with it´s cable? I saw this done on a TV-broadcasted concert once. I`m gonna try that as soon as I can.

Thomas

[Shadow_7]

Golf bag is a good idea. You should be able to find one with wheels too. I was thinking more of a lamp shipping box, with rug, mic stands, and those blue print canisters to stuff your mics into wrapped in socks or other protective measures. That way you don't have to go without mic stands. Perhaps a cheap used golf bag with wheels gutted of it's internal compartments might be better.

I'm tending to take a more minimalist approach. One mic stand, one stereo bar, two mics, two cables, and one field recorder. The extras are sets of batteries, and plug for the field recorder. Plus a power strip in case there's not a free socket around, or I need that extra 6' extension. Basically one person, one hand, one trip. I'll be beefing it up with a tripod and camcorder in the other hand once the April releases of the next generation show their stuff. It should be a pretty cool summer this year.

[mixedupsteve]

Originally Posted by ThomasWho

Thanks Adam , good idea with that metal clamp thing.

Did you ever try hanging a 57 on an amp , with it´s cable? I saw this done on a TV-broadcasted concert once. I`m gonna try that as soon as I can.

Thomas

I've recorded live rock shows where they did their 57s like this. It was OK but not as good as on axis on a stand.The Sennheiser 609 work pretty well slung like that though.
I had one guy do it to a bass cab with a metal grill. You can imagine the result!

[-Noodles-]

I am currently doing something similar myself for a university project;

Studio Diaries

I borrowed the studio's mic stands, and brought everything else myself.
My setup is listed in my sig, and I used the rehearsal spaces wedges to provide for foldback.

Worked out great, and footage will be posted up within the next few weeks. [teasers up this week!].

[The Spark]

Im currently thinking out a similar setup. Instead of a golf bag, I have been thinking of a hockey bag to help carry stands and maybe cables around in. Some of them even come with wheels for extra portability. Im not sure how hard these are to find in other parts of the world, but here in Canada they are fairly plentiful (what a shock!).

[ZEBRAAA]

i bought the cheapest plastic.... micstand (10€) on thomann.de in germany, they are like 1kg. the are good quality....still a bit dangerous if u beem out a big condensor.

but lite to travel