Replacing a DM2000

[GKennedy]

Hi - Just doing some research and planning.

What would you guys replace a DM2000 with for outside broadcast use? I cant find anything that is as versatile.

Replacement must have:

MADI
24 - 32 mic inputs
Flightcase a 2 man lift.
cascadeable for really big jobs
better pres / eq / comps than a DM2000
Good for live to 2 track as well as multitrack

Anything around?

GK

[huub]

What's your budget?
A studer vista5 or Lawo mc56/2 would come to mind, but are quite a bit more expensive..

For really big jobs you can just add more in/outputs to their processing core and you're done.. (Lawo has a rental company, but I'm afraid they're not in NZ)

The soundcraft Vi series are based on the studer vista software and are 'affordable' (from about 50.000 euros I think)

What's your motivation to replace the DM2000?

I'm not a big fan of the yamahas for broadcast, but for the price range, there's no competition..

huub

[roonsbane]

I would second this statement

for the price range, there's no competition

Now that the sony R-100 is gone, there is nothing else near it's price as powerful.

Why don't you invest in a kick ass front end to it? Perhaps a radar and some great preamps? Some with loads of color, some without, and perhaps some in the middle.

What the hell! Mix it up a bit.

Cameron

[MH 3]

Hi GK,

I´m looking for a replacement of the DM 2000 too.
So far there is no real alternative (for the price).

Intresting Boards are are: Soundcraft Vi4, Digico D1 + SD 8

Lawo, Studer, even Vi6 are way out of my price/wigth range.

External Preamps may be a better solution for now.

Regards

Marcus

[Roland]

Thinking about it laterally, it might be worth taking a look at the Digidesign Venue. Although this is designed predominantly for "live" sound, I've heard about people using them for broadcast mixing. They are highly configurable, and in the basic form offer 48 channels, packed with digidesign plugin's and interface directly with protools for recording. Whether this is for you or not only you can decide, but I would say it might be very worth your while getting a demo. Prices stat around the 25,000 Euro mark RRP and up depending on configuration, so maybe a more cost effective option. I do know that Steve Remote uses an MCL7 live sound console for his truck, this also might be an option.

Good luck!

Regards


Roland

[audio ergo sum]

certainly not within the budget of a DM-2000 but since you were asking for better in addition to what others mentioned above:

AURATUS

Audio specs are the best you can get and very suitable for live broadcast. But probably not easy to carry around in a flight case.

Surprisingly hard to find a replacement for the DM-2000 these days.

For best quality/price and mobility I would these days look into a stagebox/fiber solution with a reliable DAW (Pyramix/ProTools) and one of their top end control surfaces. But for live broadcast that is not the most reliable solution.

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by GKennedy

Hi - Just doing some research and planning.

What would you guys replace a DM2000 with for outside broadcast use? I cant find anything that is as versatile.

Replacement must have:

MADI
24 - 32 mic inputs
Flightcase a 2 man lift.
cascadeable for really big jobs
better pres / eq / comps than a DM2000
Good for live to 2 track as well as multitrack

Anything around?

GK

Why would you want to replace the 2000? The mic pres are fine, and do you have the Version 2 package? The type 2 EQ is pretty damn good on that console, the type 1 doesn't exactly set the world on fire. I agree the stock comps suck, but in Version 2 the 260 comps are really good, I use them on a daily basis in the PM-5D, but discovered them on the DM. There is also a Waves card available for that console, but I actually like the 260s at least as well. They might have a MADI card for it, but I'm not sure.

[huub]

Just f.y.i. , I think the dynamics on large scale/expensive digital consoles aren't brilliant either.. Very usable, but not lovely, creamy, punchy, warm or any other of those vague descriptions... Only exception is the utterly unreliable neve libra live (Its dynamics are 'creamy' :P ), which, incidentally, I'm sure you can pick up for little money! The belgian/dutch distributor still has one (ours probably) gathering dust in their basement I think

[Roland]

Originally Posted by huub

Just f.y.i. , I think the dynamics on large scale/expensive digital consoles aren't brilliant either.. Very usable, but not lovely, creamy, punchy, warm or any other of those vague descriptions... Only exception is the utterly unreliable neve libra live (Its dynamics are 'creamy' :P ), which, incidentally, I'm sure you can pick up for little money! The belgian/dutch distributor still has one (ours probably) gathering dust in their basement I think

To alarge extent I would agree with you, however, the compressors that give us the "punch", "warmth", etc that we all love really come down to a about a dozen analogue units. There are a lot of digital compressors out there that are fairly inoccuous, but I've used several digital units that do give punch and warmth. I suppose this is one of the benefits of the Digidesign venue, in that it has not only the onboard dynamics (that are often good enough) but also the choice of Digidesing plugin's and finally the option of outboard if you so desire. With the Yamaha's I find the dynamics only ok, good gates on the M7cl though.

Regards


Roland

[Jim vanBergen]

Well, the DM2000 doesn't have MADI (you can use it, but it's not standard)

I'd look at the DiGiCo D1 or digidesign Profile. Both are a big step up in sonics...and price, but far below the Studer or DiGiCo SD8, which are both stellar.

[GKennedy]

Thanks all - There is nothing wrong with the DM2000, it does alot of stuff well and a few things OK - but i cant see us using them in 3-4 years time and if one died I dont think we would replace it with another. I am just trying to work out what is out there. Maybe we should be raising the bar and looking at a Lawo or something.

Thanks again

GK

[oTon]

We replaced our DM2000 a few Months ago with a Studer Vista 5, and up to now we are very happy with it. We are an University focused on Pop Music in Germany, and the Vista ist a lot easier to use for the Students, also the Quality (Pre´s, Comps etc.) is better then the DM2000.

Also Connection to PT and Logic/Cubase and internal Patching is much more intuitive.

As a contender, i often use the Soundcraft VI6 and VI4, sometimes also as an recording desk, its a little more a "live" console (no real control Room section etc.), but it works.

[jasonraboin]

I recently went on a similar search. I have a DM1000 I use to mix an artist live. The pres are ok, type 2 eq is ok, and the comps are unusable. The only thing I found that would have been a major improvement and still fit in the bay of a bus (similar to your 2 man lift requirement) was a Digidesign Venue Profile with the one rack instead of the stage and local rack. I think these are coming in at $35k? I paid under $5k for the DM1000 and don't have a problem with the console layout, routing, or any of that. I opted for a nice rack of pres that sit onstage and some nice compression. I spent around $10k and have 10 channels of pre and 4 channels of compression that will kill anything in any digital desk.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by roonsbane

I would second this statement

Now that the sony R-100 is gone, there is nothing else near it's price as powerful.

Why don't you invest in a kick ass front end to it? Perhaps a radar and some great preamps? Some with loads of color, some without, and perhaps some in the middle.

What the hell! Mix it up a bit.

Cameron

Not quite gone yet SONY DMX-R100 48-Channel Digital Audio Mixer (ON SPECIAL!)

[MIKEHARRIS]

I would consider the next step up to be the Digidesign Profile Mixrack ...available as a HD bundle.

[Plush]

Nothing.

Your quest is currently unattainable in my opinion.
For your usage, 2000 is spectacular. The key is outboard mic amps and compressor/limiters. The 2000 is only a control surface and multi-track converter.

DG has standardized on Yamaha and helped Yamaha to design the 1000/2000 series. The sound is actually very fine indeed.

[Johns]

Originally Posted by Plush

Nothing.

Your quest is currently unattainable in my opinion.
For your usage, 2000 is spectacular. The key is outboard mic amps and compressor/limiters. The 2000 is only a control surface and multi-track converter.

DG has standardized on Yamaha and helped Yamaha to design the 1000/2000 series. The sound is actually very fine indeed.

I have to agree with this. Especially using outboard compressor/limiters.

[jayfrigo]

I agree that the Studers are a great choice, but loads of cash comparatively. I also echo the Soundcraft Vi series suggestion. Those are based on the Studers, and are a lot of power and flexibility for a great price. If I were buying right now, that would be on the (very) short list.

I'm just not a big fan of the Yamahas, but for the price, it's hard to compete. Even the Vis are considerably more, though what you get is worth it in my opinion. Also, if you price out a whole system with stage box(es) and use the SSL madi to pro tools units, you can save yourself a bundle on pro tools interfaces. So, assuming you want to record to a pro tools rig (preferably still with HD24 redundancy or similar), the price becomes more attractive when viewed as a whole system.