Whats with LIVE sound these days?

[s.d.finley]

Just got back from an Olds 97 show at a local venue, and the sound......

1st, Olds is a country lite rock band, they use teles, and have a pretty boy crooner. For some reason the sound guy thinks its a good idea to have the drum kit sound like stadium rock circa 1985.

2nd, we werent in a STADIUM!! The venue holds around 400 people.

Can you imagine listing to Ring of Fire w/ some super subharmonic bass in the kick drum going on? There was so much lowend on the kick, all i could hear was the harshness of the teles, barley any notes. This just totally kills it for me, the drum sound live is NOTHING like the albumn.

Is this because of all the new low priced gagdets out there these days.......the live guys think they need all this processing to make the drums sound extra FAKE?!?!

Sometimes I think it would be a good idea of FOH guys got their hearing tested once a year !!

Anydoby else notice this?

rock

sdf

[µ¿ z3®ø™]

i went to see autechre a month or so ago here in t-dot.
the autechre tech guy was feeding a stereo out from his laptop to the FOH guy that works for the venue. the FOH guy had the signal absolutely squashed so there were no dynamics whatsoever. there was a constant battle between the autechre guy and the FOH guy for the whole set with the autechre guy flailing his arms, shaking his head and pointing at the RTA display.
all to no avail.
all subtlety was lost and the sound was unbelievably emasculated.

[Telecastr]

The problem is that a lot of bands doing the club tour thing don't travel with their own FOH guy. That usually, but not always, leaves you with the sub-standard house FOH guy. Couple that with the amount in Behringer gear that is installed in a lot of small-medium sized clubs, and one can't really expect too much. I see your point about all the cheap processing. I was mixing a show for one of the bands I work with, and the house guy was like, "Dude, why don't you use the built in effects on the console?" Hmm...how about because I don't want make the signal suck any worse than it does after your crappy pres and EQs got a hold of it. Needless to say, they will never play there again.

[Jay Kahrs]

Live sound is tricky thing for a bunch of reasons. There are a bunch of clubs out there with real PA's installed in tuned rooms (Mexicali Blues in Teaneck, NJ and the Mercury Lounge in NYC come to mind) that sound excelent, there are far more rooms where the PA and room sound is an afterthought.

After I closed the studio, I spent the about three months last year doing one-off's and traveling with a handful of different bands and the quality of venue's was all over the map. One night I might be in a room with a properly powered Meyer rig and all the things needed to make it sound good in that room, and the next night I'd be in another 500 seater with no thought given to room acoustics and a poorly flown high-end of the low-end JBL or Community rig that was either cobbled together by someone who knows enough to be dangerous or worse...they just picked big cheap speakers from a catalog. In rooms like that it's impossible to mix, I try to get the vocal on top with some kind of clarity and make it thump enough for people to get their groove on...everything else turns into a mess. In a good room though...it can approach record quality.

And yeah...there's a lot of bad engineers out there but that's a whole other subject. I always try to mix to average 105 C-weighted at 50-75' from the mains. Usually if I can push the subs that's enough to move air and make it feel loud but not blow people away and make their ears ring for the next three days. And ya know...there's no accounting for taste either. I perfer to avoid huge cavernous reverbs at all costs but that's just me.

[jabney]

hi sdf,

If I were mixing in a place and over-heard disparaging or hostile comments ("country lite," "pretty boy singer") from the audience, I'd be worried about trying for a refined mix. Thumpa thumpa crowd probably wants a thumpa thumpa mix for a seamless transition from the thumpa thumpa ground-pounders they listen to in their pickups and ricers. What's more macho than stadium drums and electric guitars cranked like they're coming out of a stack o' Marshalls.

[cultureofgreed]

Originally Posted by Telecastr

The problem is that a lot of bands doing the club tour thing don't travel with their own FOH guy. That usually, but not always, leaves you with the sub-standard house FOH guy. Couple that with the amount in Behringer gear that is installed in a lot of small-medium sized clubs, and one can't really expect too much. I see your point about all the cheap processing. I was mixing a show for one of the bands I work with, and the house guy was like, "Dude, why don't you use the built in effects on the console?" Hmm...how about because I don't want make the signal suck any worse than it does after your crappy pres and EQs got a hold of it. Needless to say, they will never play there again.

Even if you do tour with your own FOH guy there is no guarantee that he will be able to decypher the myriad of PAs he is liable to encounter on a tour. Different club, different PA, different ideas on how to do things. I tried doing FOH for a band on a tour once and my hats go off to the guys who CAN do it well. Once was enough, never again. tutt

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by cultureofgreed

Even if you do tour with your own FOH guy there is no guarantee that he will be able to decypher the myriad of PAs he is liable to encounter on a tour. Different club, different PA, different ideas on how to do things. I tried doing FOH for a band on a tour once and my hats go off to the guys who CAN do it well. Once was enough, never again. tutt

The guys who do it well usually insist on a pre-show soundcheck to get the rig and room sorted out. Sometimes you don't get that luxury and usually the house guy will have some kind of advantage there. Without a soundcheck all bets are off and it can take half a set or better to get a mix together and that's especially true if monitors are being ruin from FOH and you have both to deal with.

[qoqo]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

Without a soundcheck all bets are off and it can take half a set or better to get a mix together and that's especially true if monitors are being ruin from FOH and you have both to deal with.

You mean in addition to dealing with uptight promoters and venue managers, and groupies trying to find some way backstage, and the inevitable drunk that needs to lean on you and your gear, and Murphy's many (and ever creative) gremlins that come out of the woodwork on the first downbeat?

[µ¿ z3®ø™]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

..... especially true if monitors are being ruin from FOH......

that's one of the funniest typos i've read in a long time.
and ironic.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by qoqo

You mean in addition to dealing with uptight promoters and venue managers, and groupies trying to find some way backstage, and the inevitable drunk that needs to lean on you and your gear, and Murphy's many (and ever creative) gremlins that come out of the woodwork on the first downbeat?

Totally. Except the drunks part...I have my own ways of dealing with them LOL

I remember doing a gig for the band "moe." and we had all kinds of problems with the DI's that they were carrying weren't quite working on that perticular day and making all kinds of strange noises and just generally misbehaving.

After taking about an hour to sort out the issues and getting everything to work we finished our soundcheck and sacked out for a few hours. Showtime comes around and whudda'ya know? All the problems reappeared during the first song.

[audioez]

go see Tom Petty and the Heartbreaks LIVE, that is whats up with live sound these days, the kick don't go click!!! and you can actually hear yourself think too!!! Oh and S.Ferrone is killer!!!

[cultureofgreed]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

I remember doing a gig for the band "moe." and we had all kinds of problems with the DI's that they were carrying weren't quite working on that perticular day and making all kinds of strange noises and just generally misbehaving. .

Is there some rule about gear crapping out on tour one night and then magically fixing itself when checked the next day, only to crap-out again later? That had me pulling my hair out so many times. I will never do a tour as FOH guy ever again!

I hate it! I hate it! I hate it!!!!