Thoughts about a mobile recording studio.

[MSEH]

Hello,

I'm from the Netherlands so I would like to excuse me for my bad English in advance.

I tried to find some information about my question on this forum. Of course I found lots of useable information but I didn't found a closing answer. I also like some feedback on my question so that is why I'm posting this thread. If I should reply in an existing thread, please tell me.

So here we go:

Introduction

I am a drummer and a sound technician. I love doing both of them and my dream is to make a living out of one or both.

My experience in the sound technical field is mostly live sound. But I like recording way better. That is why I have been more focused on recording lately. I bought some recording stuff, did some recording and figured out that recording is the way I’d like to go.

My dream is to own and run a recording studio. But because I’m a student I can’t afford the fixed cost (e.g. rent, tax, etc.) of a building. So that is more a future plan, for now I’m searching for a solution that hasn’t the high fixed cost, but is able of making some money out of it: A mobile studio. But before I make this sensitive decision and spend a lot of money I would like to gather a lot of information.

The concept

The concept is a half mobile studio: tracking on location and mixing at home. The goal is to achieve a very compact setup with high quality sound.

I am going to recording bands/musicians/choirs/ensembles ranging from classic, jazz, bleus, rock/pop. Possible some worship bands. All of them with probably none or little budget.
I am going to track on location but I am also going to track live sessions.

I’ll try to keep recording prices on a reasonable level and have everything legal, I don’t want to harm the pro’s with a newbie who doesn’t pay tax.

The budget

I haven’t got a large budget and it would take another four or five years before I have a realistic budget. The fact is, once I have the right gear to meet my requirements of the concept, I would be able to make some money. That is why I decided to take a loan to fill my gab in the current budget. I could buy the loan back with the money I make from the studio. In order to be safe I only take a loan that I could pay back with the job I already have. So even I don’t make money with my studio at all, I would still be able to pay the rent. Because I pay in Euro's and you pay in Dollars, plus the fact that I can have money back from tax it is a little bit hard to tell what the budget really is. I try to figure it out and post it later.

The setup

The basic structure of my tracking setup would be something like this:

- Microphones (on-stage)
- (multi-cable)
- Micpreamps (back-stage)
- Converter
- Computer
- Software

At least 24 channels of pre-amps because of the wide range of projects.

Mixing is entirely in the box with the help of a controller and some plug-ins.

The current gear.

I own a Motu 8 pre, KRK monitors, a controller from behringer, a Windows computer with Nuendo, a behringer mixing desk and some crappy microphones, headphones, cables and some other stuff. Although it works well, I’d like to begin with a clean start. That is why I am selling the current stuff and enlarge my budget for new stuff.

The gear: mics.

For the mic’s concerned, I worked al lot with AKG C414, Neumann KM184, and all of the common mic’s that are being used in the live and recording circuit. The fact is I know what mic’s are good but I don’t know how many I should get. I was thinking of the following mic’s keeping my future customers in mind:

Kick _______________1 sennheiser 902
Snare top __________1 Shure Beta57
Snare bottom _______1 Shure sm57
Aux snare __________1 Sennheiser 908D
Hi-hat _____________1 Neumann KM184
Toms ______________4 Sennheiser 908D
Overhead’s _________2 AKG C414
Bass DI ____________1 Avalon U5
Bass mic ___________1 Sennheiser MD421
Acoustic guitar ______1 BSS AR133
___________________1 Neumann KM184
Electric guitar _______2 Sennheiser 906
Keyboards __________5 BSS AR133
Vocals _____________5 Neumann KMS105
___________________1 Neumann TLM103 (when it's not live/or wind or horn instruments when live, saxophone e.g.)
Ambience/
Audience ___________2 Neumann KM184
Extra mic’s __________2 AKG C414 (allround mics/overhead percussion/leslie)
___________________3 Sennheiser MD421 (percussion/horns/leslie)
___________________1 Avalon U5 (high-quality DI for Rhodes, acoustic guitar, etc.)

I think this list would suit 80% of the bands and groups that I see around here.

Stands: K&M: 10 Large 10 Small
Cables: Tasker cable with Neutrik connectors.
Multi-cable: Tasker cable with harting 108p multi connector.

The gear: Mike-preamps and converters.

At best I would like to have the Focusrite ISA 828 with converter. But when I buy 3 of them it is going to be expensive.

The gear: Computer and Software

A macbook pro or a Macpro with 20” Monitor.
Cubase (tracking and mixing)
Wavelab (mastering)
Tascam US2400 (why aren’t they selling these things anymore?)
SSL Duende

In case of a Macbook pro I have a very compact and portable computer and in combination with a Presonus Lightpipe device I would be able to get the ADAT connection to firewire. But I am also need to mix on the computer and I am afraid that a Mackbook pro hasn’t got enough headroom for that. I am also afraid of tracking 24 tracks (96KHZ) over one firewire connection. So that is why I leave the Macpro option open.

The gear: the rest.

Of course I need monitors: I am going to listen to them yet, but for now I have chosen the Genelec 8030A.

Headphones Beyer DT770 pro.
Maybe a Aviom mixer system for monitors.
I’ve send an e-mail to Aviom with the question if I could feed an Aviom-system with ADAT. I personally find it a bit cumbersome to convert to analog where the aviom system converts it back to digital when I am able to deliver the signal already digital.

And a Motu midi timepiece for al the midi en clock connections. (And maybe sync with video?).

Finally a bedroom conversion to a mixing room with proper acoustics.

So this are my thoughts about the mobile studio. If you have any feedback on any level in this story please let me know. I am willing to learn from you!

Thanks you for reading this.

Greetings form the Netherlands,

MSEH

[Sonic Lush]

hi MSEH, welcome to the Remote Possibilities Forum!

While I am certainly no expert, I have recently ventured into somewhat similar territory as you are planning.

My first suggestion to you is, if you're not a very experienced recordist, then you might want to start small and more simple and build from there.

Rather than plan for every single eventuality and try to cover every single base right from the start.

I personally wanted to have VERY high quality with my mobile rig, so I saved my pennies and got the Prism Orpheus. All the buzz and hype is definitely deserved IMO.

Also, being limited to eight inputs has really forced me to get creative. ( while I have 16 channels of mic pre so I do some submixing down to pairs, or a single track, but I still have to work with 8 tracks for the basic session )

(I'm also not trying to compete with the big boys, and hopefully some of them will add their .02--which is worth considerably more around these parts)

((my lack of experience aside, I'm also not doing redundant backup recording, which kind of nullifies me as a 'pro' right from the start))

(((My only regret and possible other direction would have been to get a 24 track Alesis HDXR or used Radar system, and if I had to to it over, I just might.)))

If you're going to be mobile without an assistant, then it's all on you to carry and setup, which to a beginner by themselves can be a huge time sucker (especially for setup and troubleshooting)

With my own work, it's been challenging to balance all this with tight timelines, late bands, no sound or line check--I really do need an assistant to offset the labor and setup, so I can focus on getting the best recording I can.

I say keep it simple and get your game on then build from there.

Also I would suggest to keep digging in this forum--

I feel that The Remote Possibilities Forum is the GEM of GS and filled with very very valuable experience and knowledge, along with respectful, helpful professionals and enthusiasts alike!

Good luck to you in your recording endeavors and keep us posted!
Kind regards,
Walter Maenhout

[MSEH]

Originally Posted by Sonic Lush

hi MSEH, welcome to the Remote Possibilities Forum!

While I am certainly no expert...

...helpful professionals and enthusiasts alike!

Good luck to you in your recording endeavors and keep us posted!
Kind regards,
Walter Maenhout

Walter Maenhout,

Thank you for your usefull and kind response. I definitly understand de rule keep it simple. And I am really forced to do that, cause the budget really doesn't allow me to buy all the great stuff I have listed above (I wish I had that much money to spend).

The fact is: I've done a lot of recording on my Motu 8pre and in that way I am limited to 8 pre-amps/tracks. It worked fine for all the test-stuff I did but it wasn't going to be a professional recording (especialy where I recorded lead vocals with a Sennheiser e815).

On the other hand I really need more then 8 tracks for live recordings, say at least 16 channels, but preferable 24.

So I have to find a balance between quality and quantity. The above list show probably both on a high level and I should take that down the list to something I can afford (I am already busy with the budget stuff).

Doing location recording doesn't necessary require 24 tracks because you have the ability to overdub, but then again, you need to have the right microphones and you need proper monitoring for musicians. In a live situation you need more tracks, but you don't need all the microphones and monitoring because in most cases the are already supplied by the livesound gear (a splitter will do).

This is also either a choise I have to make, or find a balance in location and live recording.

It is a difficult puzzle...

Thanks for your reply!

[videoteque]

Hi MSEH,

I think Walter's recomendation to keep it simple is simply priceless. If you have to transport/run everything alone, keep it really simple AND light!

I will also recomend you go more for music styles that require less mics/channels, like classical/jazz/folk.

If you buy mid and high end used equipment you will loose a lot less money if you need to resell. If you buy something used, buy it at a price you can resell it too.

Don't go too much into debt. Even if you live with your parents, don't go over 50% of your income (eg, if you make 1000€ per month, don't get a loan of more than 500€ per month).

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

[Shadow_7]

Originally Posted by videoteque

I think Walter's recomendation to keep it simple is simply priceless. If you have to transport/run everything alone, keep it really simple AND light!

But not too light. If you're recording outdoors or other venues with high wind potential.

I'm basically trying to do this same thing, but on a much smaller scale. I have a stereo field recorder and a stereo pair of mics. And even that can be a bit much to handle for one person. 50' of heavy duty XLR cable, 100' of all weather extension cord. Plus mic stand, mics, field recorder, batteries, spare batteries, chargers, weather proofing, ........ It might just be one small and simple stereo audience perspective rig. But it all adds up to one big logistical issue. Throw in a venue equivalent to the middle of a corn field with a 1 mile hike...

I tried to do this last year while maintaining status as a performer in the group. Needless to say I have good recordings of most of the rehearsals and virtually none of the performances. So I'm choosing to do just recording this year. And I'm expanding my rig to include HD video. Not that I plan on becoming a film maker, but lets face it, once the audio levels are set, the rig pretty much runs itself (for an audience perspective rig). Outside of any unexpected circumstances or battery/media changes anyway.

Keep it simple. Each new toy is one more opportunity for failure / point of failure. Murphy's law is always in full effect. Not that I have aspirations of making a living at this, but I like to keep everything down to one trip, and within arms reach so nothing blows or walks away without me knowing about it. Sure I could do all of this with just a simple camcorder that slips into a coat pocket. But the end result is just not the same.

[jimcroisdale]

Don't forget splitter boxes so that you can run feeds from the artists vocal mics....

[videoteque]

Sure I could do all of this with just a simple camcorder that slips into a coat pocket. But the end result is just not the same.

The results ARE REALLY NOT THE SAME. I once recorded audio/video of a concert. While I was editing the video, I was listening the audio of the camcorder, the music sounded medium, the applause was horrible. Then I inserted the audio from the mics in the timeline (recorded with the Korg MR1000) and the difference was incredible!!! The applause become a lush and impressive sound, not some distorted percussive white-noise!!!

MSEH, I didn't say it before, but maybe you can try to associate with a video-production company/person. I really think that alone one can arrive just to a certain point, in good company you can go along much longer...

[MSEH]

Thanks for the input! I forgot the splitters! Thanks for reminding me for that. I was thinking of building them self in combination with the multicable-system with transformers, but I’m not sure about that yet.

Accidentally a friend of my is starting up a video/photo company, he attends also a communication/media type of study, I have already asked him if we could blend our idea’s together. Thank you for the wonderful idea.

Thanks for the reply’s, I really appreciate your help!

Back to business!

I have done some calculations and I have a rough oversight on the budget. Because I want to keep things safe and buy the loan in a small period back I have chosen for a small loan. Together with my personal savings and tax-refund I have a budget of approximately 12.000 euro’s. Let’s say 15.000 USD.

So I have added up the above list and 15K is not even half the amount of money I need to buy everything form the list. I could get a bigger loan, but that is not what I want (it would be nice if I could sleep at night, instead of lying awake and thinking over money issues).

Although 15K is a nice amount of money, I have to make a correct balance. It’s impossible to do both live and location recording on a high quality, so I have to make decisions en compromises somewhere.

I should either go for:

- location recording (a mobile studio)
- live recording

And:

- quantity (cover a large part of the market here, more work)
- quality (focus on a smaller part of the market, less work)

This translates in the following gear choices:

The most important thing is: Tracking: DAW Bases or Hardware recorder (e.g. HD24)?
Mixing is done in DAW anyway, so I prefer to track in DAW, but it has to be reliable.
I also have to make a choice between MAC en PC, but I will figure that by myself, or in the case I won’t I could ask it in an existing topic.

Second:
How many and which pre-amps:
In case of location recording I maybe buy the ISA 828,
in case of live recording I might add two 8pre’s to the 8pre I already own.


Third:
How many and which mic’s:
Same story as the pre-amps:
- Many mic’s of medium quality
- Few mic’s of high quality

What do you think? or What would you buy for the budget?

Thanks!

[bongo]

This is what I'm doing for my new set-up. I have a MacBook Pro with an Apogee Symphony Mobile card, an Apogee Rosetta 800, a True Systems Precision 8 and a Ramza WZ-AD96M (which is an 8 channel mic pre - converter). This gives me 16 channels of good quality pre amps and converters in 4 rack spaces. If I need more, I can take my AD-16 and some pre amps out of my rack for more tracks.
Small but mighty!

[John Suitcase]

I originally planned to do a split of live recording and on-location production. The live recording part of my plan never really materialized that well. I did a few projects, they came out well, but in my market, bands weren't interested in spending much money on live tracks. So, the on-location business is the thrust of my work, and it's good.

I think you need to figure out if you're going to do live work or more studio-on-location stuff.

If live, I'd be thinking about one of the combo mixer interface setups, like the Mackie mixers. Plenty of good preamps, convenient setup, etc. I'd focus on having a good setup of basic mics, lots of 57s, a few good condensers, maybe one or two of the condensers that are deigned for stage use. You'll need a good snake, good transformer splitter, and some backup system.

If you're doing location production, you can get by with fewer preamps, but will want higher quality. More range of mics, since you'll have time to try different things out.

I'd try to narrow your market until it makes sense. The more focused you are, the easier it is to beat out less focused competition. If I want someone to record my church, I'm more likely to hire the guy who specializes in church recordings, rather than the guy that does hip hop, live rock concerts, and did one church last summer.

[BLP]

Originally Posted by MSEH

I should either go for:

- location recording (a mobile studio)
- live recording

Welcome to the Remote Forum! Watch out, though, or you'll become addicted like me...

So, I'll add my .02 with the same #1 piece of advice that I seem to write on all of these type threads: if you go with live recording you've got to have a backup/redundant system. With pop live recording, you pretty much have to have complete redundancy, track for track. With classical, 1 to 1 redundancy is ideal, but can be creatively worked around. Reliability and contingency are the key, so a UPS would be highly recommended, too.

Originally Posted by MSEH

And:

- quantity (cover a large part of the market here, more work)
- quality (focus on a smaller part of the market, less work)

You've got a pretty sweet mic list compiled. I'd say that you could keep the quality but maybe reduced the quantity somewhat. It's tough to work without the gear you dream of, but working with some good gear (augmented with some lesser-quality stuff to hold you over, if need be) can force you to be creative, resourceful and make educated decisions. In the long run, those are way more important skills than any piece of gear!*

*disclaimer: this does not in any way, shape or form indicate that the poster is a total gearslut

[Sonic Lush]

Originally Posted by bongo

This is what I'm doing for my new set-up. I have a MacBook Pro with an Apogee Symphony Mobile card, an Apogee Rosetta 800, a True Systems Precision 8 and a Ramza WZ-AD96M (which is an 8 channel mic pre - converter). This gives me 16 channels of good quality pre amps and converters in 4 rack spaces. If I need more, I can take my AD-16 and some pre amps out of my rack for more tracks.
Small but mighty!

Hey Bongo happy new year!

Just today I met with a pal of mine and we hooked his older Panasonic eight channel converters, which are the same as your Ramsa, I believe, without the mic pres.

hooked up via ADAT and clocked to the Orpheus I was able to set up a 16 channel system in to Logic at 24/441. Oh happy days!

I was pretty surprised at the sound quality of the Panasonic/Ramsa stuff.

anyhow, back to this thread:

[videoteque]

MSEH,

12K€ is very little for a rock&roll star BUT a lot of money for someone making 1000€ per month (pretty common in EU). I wish you to be in the rock&roll star camp, but if you are not, you have to invest wisely. I would try to squeeze well your "business-plan", before deciding if you need a 1K€ or a 2K€ preamp...

Try to talk with a lot of people, not only with your friends. Talk about it with bands/possible clients/clubs/labels you don't know yet. See the face they make when you tell them about your intended price-list.

We are in a crisis moment and money is tight for everybody. Try to workout a plan where you can mostly pay the loan with the money making recordings. Ask and use only the money you really need.

Do you really NEED to buy everything yourself?? Will you work in a lot of different clubs or mostly in one of them?? Do this clubs already provide a PA/mics/mixer/sound tech??

If you are to work in a coupe of clubs and they have a decent PA system, you just need a mic splitter.


Can you rent equipment in your area??

Don't forget Steve's Remote 1st law: be modular!!! If you can easily rent equipment, you can build an 8 track rig that can easily go 16 and 24 tracks. Keep in mind that renting brings a reality-check to your transactions. Eg, if you need to rent 500€ of equipment to do a job, I am sure your bill will be at least the double of that. It helps justify costs with your clients.


Can you find a sort of regular income??

Myspace, Youtube, can create a lot of opportunities for low-budget projects. Maybe you can team with a big club, a couple of sponsors and your video friend and can make a once/twice a month concert recording or something inthe way of a regular income.

You don't need to buy anything to go talk with clubs and possible sponsors!!!

Most things I am telling to you, I am also telling them to me!!!

[MSEH]

Thank you very much for all the reply’s, you are so kind here. On the Dutch boards they pin down you idea’s in the first reply instead of helping you.

I am going to talk with some bands an clubs around here, that is a very nice tip!

I would like to talk a little bit about the environment where I live in, so you get an image of the market around here.

In the end it is Holland. We live in a very nice country though, but I mean our country is very small.
I live in the North of Holland, 10/15 minutes of the coast. I can easily drive to the other side of the country in 3 ½ hours. What I’m trying to say is, especially in the north part (where I live), there is little to none of something like a musical scene, and in the case there is, it is 80% commercial pop/rock music (with a lot of cover/tribute bands). It’s very hard to live from music here and the change that you will breakthrough is very small. Yes you have a change IF you write very, very predictable commercial, rocksongs. But even then it is hard.

What does that mean for me:
I really respect what the above person wrote: you have to specialise on one thing. But in my case that would be suicide. Because of the little market here (which consist 80% of rock-and-roll) I think I need to be diverse in my services that I offer. I could be wrong, please correct me if I am.

The fact is, in my area there are plenty of recording studio’s but there is no one who has a portable studio of decent quality. As for as I know, even the regional TV doesn’t have one! At most there could be a guy with a workstation or something like that.

Although the market is small here, it has a huge gab in it! But I think in order to fill that gab I have to be diverse.

So, besides of that: There are a lot of PA-renting company’s just 10 or 15km away, so I can easily rent the stuff I don’t have. But they don’t have good pre-amps or recorders. They only have microphones (and speakers, mixers, because it’s a PA-renting company)

In case of a life performance: they usually have an acceptable range of mic’s, so I don’t have to buy a large range of mic’s.

I am trying to make a new gear list what would fit in my budget, but I’ll think I should be diverse. That means I should cover both the live and location recording, but with lesser equipment.

Thanks for so far helping me out!

MSEH

[videoteque]

MSEH, buying audio equipment is really easy, you take out your VISA out of your pocket and start buying. Creating a business-plan for your ideas is a whole different story, more complicated but much more rewarding in the end.

If you jump on your plan without preparing yourself you will end with a lot of nice audio gear that you can't use because you must do a regular job to pay the loan or because you have no musician to rec! If you plan well, not only will you get your gear, you can start a career!!!

Consider the things you read here and who writes them, I am a begginer, but a lot of them have been doing this for a lot of years (their mobile phone rings automagically!) and some even win Grammies.

You named a regional TV, local and regional TVs can be another source of income!

[David Rick]

Originally Posted by MSEH

[FONT=Tahoma]T
The fact is, in my area there are plenty of recording studio’s but there is no one who has a portable studio of decent quality. As for as I know, even the regional TV doesn’t have one! At most there could be a guy with a workstation or something like that.

Although the market is small here, it has a huge gab in it! But I think in order to fill that gab I have to be diverse.

Brick and mortar studios are sometimes happy to have someone they can call out for remote work on short notice. My guess is that there's a lot of business out there, but most of it isn't "bands". Rock musicians tend to be equipment savvy and many probably have their own home studios. But there are undoubtedly many amateur choruses, bands, and orchestras who want recordings and don't know how to make them. Check with all the local schools and colleges to see how many performances they present each year. Then find out who the decision-makers are and what they are prepared to spend. THAT is what determines your equipment needs, not how many players are on stage! Many groups can pay only for a stereo pair, but they will pay if you're good at what you do. The trick is not having a big enough rig, but a small enough one that you can take this kind of business and make a profit.

[videoteque]

The trick is not having a big enough rig, but a small enough one that you can take this kind of business and make a profit.

David, you wonderfully put in one phrase what I tried to say with 2000 words!

It's not that you have to be ready to anything, you must be ready for the works YOU can get paid.

[MSEH]

Originally Posted by videoteque

David, you wonderfully put in one phrase what I tried to say with 2000 words!

It's not that you have to be ready to anything, you must be ready for the works YOU can get paid.

Thanks David and Videoteque,

If i'm right you suggest to buy:

- A stereo pair of high quality microphones
- A high quality 2-channel pre-amp/convertor

And focus on the classical stuff, which is in my case, a small part of te market.

[videoteque]

I don't see it this way...

I think you must "scan" your market. And buy the gear you need to make it in your market.

Let's suppose you want to open an ice-cream shop. First you watch other ice-cream shops, then you choose a place, then you calculate how many ice-creams you will more or less sell and how many frigos and tools you need to do them. Before doing/spending money, you calculate if in the end everything is profitable.

If you have a two-track high quality setup and do two classic recordings per year, but are asked 50 times if you can record live rock bands, I am not recomending a 2-track setup!tutt

Remote recording is a vaste world, you must decide who you want to offer your services to. Just a usable recorder can go from 205€ to nearly 5000€. Which is better?? To record a church choir and be paid 100€ the first option no doubt, to record a rock festival and be paid 5000€ per day you NEED the second option and a lot more gear/Kms of cables/people/skills.

[MSEH]

I have done some thinking and I made a desicion.

I am not getting the loan and I will use a small part of my savings to buy 2 additional mic pre's to add my 8pre I already own.

In the end my real dream is to have a recording studio so I decided that I was better of to invest the money in someting I really want. For now, I will go on with my FOH sound and do some tracking of my live stuff with the 24 channel MOTU setup. I still can learn alot from this setup.

Thanks for all of you who replied in this thread. You have been really helpfull and because of that I made this sensible decision. I certainly stay on the wonderfull forum/board!

Thanks

[tomdarude]

I´d suggest a "midway" thing of upgrading & getting into location recording...

sell what you have anyway and get a nice MacbookPro or MacPro with 2x MetricHalo 2882I/O interfaces!

not only are they much better than the motu-crap, but you also have 16 "usable" micpre´s that´ll serve you for the time you´re lacking better pres just fine!

PLUS you have "Record Panel" built into the 2D option of the MIO, which can serve you pretty much as a standalone recorder!! I´d trust that 10x more than any native DAW for live recording!!! (I´d never try that, honestly...I´d be shit scared to death )


you could also add a used Audient ASP008 (adat) to your 2 Metric Halo´s for 8 nice pre´s and 8 more A/D...making this a nice & stable 24in/16out set-up!



and 3rd) If your mixing ITB later in cubase/nuendo.....using the MIO Console for mixing/summing will def. improve your ITB mix!! dedicated DSP is still a good thing




I also wouldn´t spend a fortune on those Neuman´s etc., see if you can buy used from PA/rental companies e.g.

a few "standard" dynamics can be 90% already!!

get a ton of SM57s, AT i5s, check the Heil mics (PR 20/30/40 and the handhelds!)

why KM184s ?? used pair of Beyer MC930 (I like them better), and for a start a used pair of Oktava MC012s ( 150,- ??) will do!!

don´t try to buy the whole mic bundle new in a shop-package-bundle!! look wisely for better options, substitudes, buy used!

all the best from germany

tom




PS: most important......NEVER NEVER NEVER ever forget.....how spoiled you are living 10min from the north sea.....I´d love to be that close to the sea/coast one day!!!
maybe less jobs, but soooo much more quality free time, just taking a walk at the beach!!

[AdamJay]

Metric Halo interfaces are probably the most suitable to what you are wanting to do.

Two 2882 2D's, and perhaps a Presonus Digimax FS. With this you'll have 24 preamps, be able to send a total of 14 independent stereo headphone mixes. All with DSP processing at next to zero latency (0.7ms) and at 24bit/96khz for everything.

Worried that a MacBook Pro cannot handle all of this over firewire? Don't be, Metric Halo users have been doing stuff like this on G4 Powerbooks for the last 7 or 8 years. A MacBook Pro can handle this and far more. Plus, the onboard DSP in the Metric Halo boxes will take a huge load of your computer. Do you really want to lug a Mac Pro around ?
You'll easily be able to set up all your monitor mixes within the MIO Console, and use it to record. Then just drop the recorded takes into Cubase or any other DAW for editing/mixing. As mentioned, you have the option of mixing from Cubase into the MIO Console v.5 Mixer and you can save all those settings into your Cubase project file with MH's Console Connect.

Add a +DSP license from Metric Halo that will work on both boxes if they are both connected and you've got some great amp sims, transient controller, and mastering plug-ins.

No other solution will give you the kind of stability and reliability you wish for with being this mobile and having such a high track count.

And Tom is right, buy used when and wherever you can!

I do speak from experience, i did mostly remote recordings while building my own studio, see Adam's studio construction: PHASE 1
I used two 2882's, a ULN-2, and a few other preamps/converters, typically about 22 channels.

[John Suitcase]

Originally Posted by MSEH

I have done some thinking and I made a desicion.

I am not getting the loan and I will use a small part of my savings to buy 2 additional mic pre's to add my 8pre I already own.

In the end my real dream is to have a recording studio so I decided that I was better of to invest the money in someting I really want. For now, I will go on with my FOH sound and do some tracking of my live stuff with the 24 channel MOTU setup. I still can learn alot from this setup.

Thanks for all of you who replied in this thread. You have been really helpfull and because of that I made this sensible decision. I certainly stay on the wonderfull forum/board!

Thanks

It's easy for us to spend your money, but I think you've made a good choice.

While some new converters might give you a slight improvement, I don't find the MOTU stuff to be 'crap' at all. I don't love the preamps, but I find the converters to be fine.

If you stay in the black, and add gear with some of your earnings, you won't need to liquidate when things slow down for a month or two, which happens to all of us.

Good luck, keep us posted on your work!

[bove]

Originally Posted by John Suitcase

stay in the black,

Stay in the black. You can start with some reasonable equipment, and if you're good at what you do, you'll make plenty of money, and can add stuff later to achieve even better results.

[BD1234]

Please excuse my ignorance. I know what snare top is, I know what snare bottom is. But what is aux snare?

"Aux snare __________1 Sennheiser 908D"

[Remoteness]

If I had to guess, I would think it could be a second snare or a second mic on the main snare.

Originally Posted by BD1234

Please excuse my ignorance. I know what snare top is, I know what snare bottom is. But what is aux snare?

"Aux snare __________1 Sennheiser 908D"

[ZEBRAAA]

keeping it simple is the message..... recording on location.

also, dont spend it all...u need to invest during your "career".

im recording now 1 yr on location and my world is upside down.

also, you can also rent mics. like expesive ones. for 30€ a day/ u 87. interesting sometimes.

my idea, dont spent it all, record for 1 year, and look it over.

greetz and the best zebraaa

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by tomdarude

I´d suggest a "midway" thing of upgrading & getting into location recording...

sell what you have anyway and get a nice MacbookPro or MacPro with 2x MetricHalo 2882I/O interfaces!

not only are they much better than the motu-crap, but you also have 16 "usable" micpre´s that´ll serve you for the time you´re lacking better pres just fine!

PLUS you have "Record Panel" built into the 2D option of the MIO, which can serve you pretty much as a standalone recorder!! I´d trust that 10x more than any native DAW for live recording!!! (I´d never try that, honestly...I´d be shit scared to death )


you could also add a used Audient ASP008 (adat) to your 2 Metric Halo´s for 8 nice pre´s and 8 more A/D...making this a nice & stable 24in/16out set-up!



and 3rd) If your mixing ITB later in cubase/nuendo.....using the MIO Console for mixing/summing will def. improve your ITB mix!! dedicated DSP is still a good thing




I also wouldn´t spend a fortune on those Neuman´s etc., see if you can buy used from PA/rental companies e.g.

a few "standard" dynamics can be 90% already!!

get a ton of SM57s, AT i5s, check the Heil mics (PR 20/30/40 and the handhelds!)

why KM184s ?? used pair of Beyer MC930 (I like them better), and for a start a used pair of Oktava MC012s ( 150,- ??) will do!!

don´t try to buy the whole mic bundle new in a shop-package-bundle!! look wisely for better options, substitudes, buy used!

This is great advice and essentially the setup I have (with an RME Octamic for ADAT in) and it covers a lot of ground. The Metric Halo record panel seems as stable as anything else I've tried. It's failed fewer times than my HD24 rig did. With a MBP, use the FW for the Metric Halo boxes and get an eSATA setup to which to record. Very stable and easy.

Looking for used mics is a great way to go, but really, rent stuff when you need to do bigger gigs so you can try different things. I've dropped some coin on mics (I have a pair of 414s and some other nice mics), but I'm probably still a ways off from paying for them directly. Unless you use them all the time, it's better to keep the money in your pocket. Conversely, I suppose I could look into renting my mics out, but these days I'm on the road too much to deal with that kind of business.

Start small and have fun! It's more about your skills than the gear, anyway.

Edwin

[MSEH]

Hello,

6 months have past and I would like to give you an update.

I've already made the desicion of not taking the loan. In the last few months I've tried to save some more money and in the meanwhile I've talked to a lot of people.

I have decided to buy 2 additional motu 8 pre's, a Macbook pro, a pair of 8030/40 and a pair of Neumann KM184. And of course a splitter system.
I've already have a motu 8pre and Beyer 770 pro headphones.

In this way I can track a liveshow and have a light a compact setup.

What do you think?

I've also have 2 remaining questions:
- How bad is it to have a passive un-isolated splitter? I would like to have a isolated splitter but then I need 24 transformers, which is very expensive.
- If i daisychain multiple motu 8 pre's via firewire, do I have to sync the motu or can I sync them somehow via firewire?

And of course I would like to thank all the people who have taken the trouble to respond to my post.

[noamraz]

Splitting without transformers would be a risk if you are not familiar with the equipment you are connecting your rig to.

I, Personally, would "cut" the expanses and will go with a passive w/o transformers only in case that i have a way to "check" the system a day before the actual recording.

In my case BTW, several SR companies are renting splitting systems and i will rent a system in case that i need one. At the moment that suits with my needs. I assume that you might want to check actually how much will it cost you to rent a splitting system.