Live rock band recording - am I thinking along the right lines?

[jimcroisdale]

Hi all,

I've recently put together a recording rig, based on a laptop so that I can use it on location. It's first test run is likely to be on a rock band at a pub gig and I wondered if I'm thinking along the right lines.

My interface is the new Yam/Steinberg MR816 X whick gives 8 quality mic pres. I'll be expanding via ADAT with a Behringer ADA8000 to give a total of 16 mic inputs. I'll be using an ART S8 splitter which gives a direct and balanced output from each of the eight mic inputs.

So:

Lead vocal - SM58 via splitter
Backing Vox 1 - SM58 via splitter
Backing Vox 2 - SM58 via splitter (the band have their own 58's....)
Bass amp - DI box direct + SM57 on cab
Guitar amp 1 - SM57 centre cone
Guitar amp 2 - SM57 centre cone
Kick - D112 (Inside for less bleed)
Snare - SM57 (I prefer to mic underneath only if I have to choose)
Toms - SM57's
OH's - 2x Rode NT1's in XY or a single NT4 if i can find one!

So pretty much everything direct mic'd, and running a split off the vocal mics.

Am I missing anything? Other that doing a little dance and saying a prayer to whichever God makes sure that laptops don't glitch their way through a 45min set......

Cheers,

Jim

[Max Gain]

JIm this sounds like a pretty straight approach. I might suggest an ambient mic a couple of meters out front. You'll be surprised how much crowd response you miss when everything else is close mic'ed. A well placed condensor (preferably a CHEAP Ldc) will not only give a great control of audience. response but will often sit very well in the over all mix and give a very live feel when blended in the project.

[NorseHorse]

Will you be editing everything afterword? It makes a HUGE difference.

It sounds like you've got the physical equipment you'll need. As long as you've got a DAW and some basic plug-ins as well (plus time to edit), then you're set for now.

[slaphappygarry]

Hey man,

From past experience I would avoid the under snare and go with the up top one (if i had to choose one). If those guitars are loud or the stage is small the snare will rattle like nothing you will ever get rid off in the overheads let alone trying to control it in the under snare mic.

Infact, i don't even know how much use the toms will be when you take into consideration you don't have any ambient mics. I would start with:

Three vocals as above
Bass amp - DI box direct (bail on the mic - re amp later is you need to)
Guitar amp's x 2
Kick
Snare - Top and bottom (although just top if need be)
Toms
OH's
Hats (I never use them in a studio recording but always find myself boosting them in live stuff to get some snare etc...)

Leaving you with 2 or 3 room mics. Remember, you don't HAVE to use all 16 mics (I ususally have two channels free for surprises). 5 mics CAREFULLY placed on a live kit is infinitely better than 12 put where it would be sensible in the studio.

Good luck.

G

[jimcroisdale]

Hi all,

Thanks for the info guys!

Yes, I do have a DAW and plugins ets, and will be editing and mixing later for best results.

I'd not thought about an ambient mic out front. Usually in pubs in the UK space is pretty tight, especially with a good crowd in the place! I wouldn't want to have a mic on a stand with a cable and someone trip over it. However, what's to stop me from using a separate mobile recorder of some type and flying the audio in Cubase afterwards?

I did wonder about the snare, but a lot of live recordings that I have heard make the snare sound like the batter lever has been knocked off by accident. I just wanted to make sure I get some 'rattle' in the sound, but I see your point about all the other instruments causing it so resonate annoyingly.....

Time wil tell,

Cheers,
Jim

[slaphappygarry]

Before the show starts I sometimes get a few snare samples (actually, samples from he whole kit) and splice the bottom hits in after.

Good luck.

G

[mixedupsteve]

Your plan sounds pretty reasonable. I have a similar setup only with Presonus stuff and a Lunchbox with some good pres for the "money" tracks. I usually set up an inexpensive condenser ambient mic near my recording position or even onstage facing the crowd.
Don't forget to sync using the BNC wordclock. Any decent cable will do, you don't need one of those $50.00 1 ft cables.

I just put up a myspace page if you want to hear some samples. (some of the clubs these were recorded in were tiny, loud bars but I'm pretty happy with them)

MySpace.com - Rolling Recorders - CHESTERTOWN, Maryland - www.myspace.com/rollingrecorders

Here's mine:

[jimcroisdale]

Synch what? The two interfaces?

[mixedupsteve]

Originally Posted by jimcroisdale

Synch what? The two interfaces?

Yes, if the expansion interface is sending its data via digital then the clocks must be in sync. ADAT sync isn't the best but I think yours both have BNC type sync.

[jimcroisdale]

Right, I see. I was presuming that the ADAT sync was the one to go for.

So I connect the two 'tv aerial' type sockets and set the sync in the MR816 to 'external BNC'?

Cheers,
Jim

[mixedupsteve]

I'm not sure. Sometimes a unit can send and receive WClock and sometimes receive only (Slave). You need to read the manuals of both devices to see about that. On mine I have the Firewire interface (Master)sending WC to the Expansion unit (slave).
They need to be set on the same sample rate also.

[NorseHorse]

Originally Posted by jimcroisdale

I did wonder about the snare, but a lot of live recordings that I have heard make the snare sound like the batter lever has been knocked off by accident.

You can also mic the side of the snare if you are worried about your mic.

[jimcroisdale]

The MR816 has separate BNC sockets for IN and OUT, where the ADA8000 has just an IN socket.

Self explanatory then really....

Is Wordclock via BNC really that much better than ADAT sync?

[jimcroisdale]

mixedupsteve - your rig looks very similar to what I'm trying to achieve!

Do you use a laptop?

[mixedupsteve]

I use a Macbook 1G RAM and 2.16G CPU. I've used the internal HD and also an external USB HD. Never had a problem. I had a Dell with better specs but I would get clicks and pops sometimes. I worked on it for weeks and never fully resolved the problem.
I mixdown on my desktop Windows XP computer.

[jimcroisdale]

I've got a Windows laptop. It came with Vista which caused no end of problems.

After weeks of struggling i managed to get all the drivers to get XP running.

I did seem to have some issues early on, but it seems ok now, with no pops or clicks.

Fingers crossed when I've got 16ch recording at one!!!!!!