A New Mobile Rig Design

[b808]

Hello Friends,

I've spent awhile planning my design of a mobile rig.
Now I feel that I'm ready to face the slutz.

My purpose for this rig is for 17+ Track projects. Mostly Concerts for Houses of Worship.

If everything works as planned it will be housed in a cargo trailer which I will retro fit into a mobile studio/CR.

First is the trailer.
I'm shopping around but this is the one that suites my taste (which isn't much)
Side access, double axel, about 7'x14' in dimension.

Haulmark Trailers: Car Trailers, Enclosed Cargo Trailers for Sale

Second the gear, I'm open to suggestions.

DAW Gear:
Apple Mac Pro
Nuendo 4
1 Euphonix MC Control
3 Euphonix MC Mix
2 Lynx Aurora 16 AD/DA
Apogee Big Ben
Adam Audio A7's

Preamps:
2 GT Bricks
2 Grace Designs m101
GT SuPRE
UA LA610

Mics:
Mojave Audio MA 200
GT67
2 Shure SM81
Sennheiser MKH 416
A Small army of Shure and AKG Dynamic Mics.

Comps/Limiters:
Distressor
1176


Also, some questions, besides the obvious "What do you guys think?", that I have are about acoustic treatment.

In a 6.9' x 13.9' area I'm thinking of 5" of 703 per square foot.

What do you think?

[John Suitcase]

Looks like an interesting project!

What's your overall budget? And what is the goal of the unit, are you going to be doing recordings for DVD, or for CD release?

I'm thinking that there needs to be some serious budget for snakes, wireless talkback, etc. Also, you'll need to think about your power requirements, you may want some sort of significant filtering and uninterruptible supply.

You'll also need some A/C for the trailer, unless you're operating in a cold climate, where you might need heat.

Since you're talking about a pretty small rig, maybe you'd be better off doing what I do, loading into the facility to record, then mix back at your office/control room.

I think the main advantage of a trailer approach is if you have a large console that you're using. A DAW based rig can easily fit into a rack or two, and be set up and torn down in an hour.

[NorseHorse]

You need to think hard about the ratios of space/cost/portability/practicality. The Bricks are a little odd to take with you and both the LA610 and the SuPREs take up a lot of space (and are probably very heavy). (And why not get a Grace m201 instead of two 101s?) After sacrificing the LA610 and the SuPREs, take a look at some rack units with MORE PREAMPS like the True Precision 8s that Steve used on his Dell Lounge sessions. And spend the extra money on more/better mics and other accoutrements like John mentioned.

Since you're doing worship service, you really need to make sure you have enough quality mics and pres for whatever is thrown at you.

[Mick@itc]

Originally Posted by b808

Hello Friends,

I've spent awhile planning my design of a mobile rig.
Now I feel that I'm ready to face the slutz.

My purpose for this rig is for 17+ Track projects. Mostly Concerts for Houses of Worship.

If everything works as planned it will be housed in a cargo trailer which I will retro fit into a mobile studio/CR.

First is the trailer.
I'm shopping around but this is the one that suites my taste (which isn't much)
Side access, double axel, about 7'x14' in dimension.

Haulmark Trailers: Car Trailers, Enclosed Cargo Trailers for Sale

Second the gear, I'm open to suggestions.

DAW Gear:
Apple Mac Pro
Nuendo 4
1 Euphonix MC Control
3 Euphonix MC Mix
2 Lynx Aurora 16 AD/DA
Apogee Big Ben
Adam Audio A7's

Preamps:
2 GT Bricks
2 Grace Designs m101
GT SuPRE
UA LA610

Mics:
Mojave Audio MA 200
GT67
2 Shure SM81
Sennheiser MKH 416
A Small army of Shure and AKG Dynamic Mics.

Comps/Limiters:
Distressor
1176


Also, some questions, besides the obvious "What do you guys think?", that I have are about acoustic treatment.

In a 6.9' x 13.9' area I'm thinking of 5" of 703 per square foot.

What do you think?

Mate if I had that list of gear I would be very very happy. With that gear you will be able to make great recordings. Now focus on the process and the sound. What you have is fine...just go with it, dont worry yet about the "sound" of this or that piece of equipment. Put the system together and put a tight process around how it is used/set-up. Then focus on getting the sound you/client wants from the sessions. Play/practice/listen. Just get in there and do it...its the best feeling when you are sitting listening to the fruits of your labour. When you have a bit of experience you can start giving the mixes types of sounds like MOTOWN, or STADIUM ROCK, or whatever takes your fancy and experience. Remember its all about the recording in the end...the tools and just tools. Like any tradesperson use the tools you got.

Have a great year ahead...
Mick

[Soundhunter]

Sounds like a great project, keep us informed of your progress with lots of Pics please.

I would add to the list a camera and monitor set up so that you can see whats happening.

Steve

Don't Get Nasty... Have a Pasty

[bongo]

How are you going to do more than 16 tracks without that many preamps? Maybe I'm missing something.
I'm a Euphonix MC user. I don't see how the MC control will benefit you in a live situation. Also, I think you would be fine with 2 Mixes as they bank through tracks just fine.

[matt thomas]

I get the feeling you've read a bit and been swallowed by the hype

I've made you a modified list that will be cheaper and equal/better

I'm assuming you are recording the gigs and not doing front of house (you never said so)

DAW:

Imac (cheaper, and enough for what you need)
Cubase (cheaper than nuendo, and for your purposes identical)
1 MC control 1 MIX (I don't know them but you seem to want them)
m-audio 2626 (possiblity of using pro tools, plus includes low latency mixer, and 8 preamps, + 18 channels of digital)
possibly a high quality stereo D-A later, if you decide you need it
Monitors, Adam A7's if you like them

preamps:

Depending on how many chanels you want I would get Focusrite 828's and 428's with digital output (no need for Auroras)
then if you want you could get some other pres, with the money you have saved with this list you could get some better ones than the ones in your list

Mics
Mojave MA 200
Josephson C42 pair
your army of dynamics
possilby something else

Comps
none.

a couple of plugins

Acoustic treatment

So what I've saved you:
No need for Mac Pro (imacs are powerful enough) saves about 2 thousand $
No need for nuendo (cubase is pretty much the same minus film features) saves a thousand $
No need for so many Euphonx's unless you decide you really need them later. saves a couple thousand $
No need for Auroras, converters built into pres, and 2626 saves about 5 thousand $
No need for big ben, big waste of money for your purpose. saves a thousand $
I would choose different preamps.
I'm not sure what your mic requirements are
No need for compressors, use software unless you really need them, which I'm guessing you don't, saves a few thousand $

You may need some sort of mic/line splitters if you want to feed the front of house separately from your recording rig.

With the leftover money I would buy better pres, maybe another nice mic, the 2626, some plugins, better monitors and take your girlfriend on holiday

edit : lol, I just read that last paragraph, I'm not going to take your girlfriend on holiday, I mean I think you should

narco

[BLP]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

(And why not get a Grace m201 instead of two 101s?)

If memory serves me, the new 201's are two spaces, while the 101's can be racked in a single space. Plus, the black finish is sexy...

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

...MORE PREAMPS like the True Precision 8s that Steve used on his Dell Lounge sessions.

Amen! I'm a lover of character pres and all, but having a solid number of good, fast, clean pres is a must. The True stuff is great bang for the buck.

Also (and maybe most importantly), I didn't see any redundancy in your recorders. If you're planning on doing live concert recording, you've got to have a backup. Take the split early on in the signal path; I'd suggest using some pre's with dual outputs (like the Grace or True Systems) and going analog to your DAW and another system (Alesis HD24's work well) as a backup. Also, if you're tracking services, you'll probably need a few channels of mic splitter. Or maybe I'm just superimposing my own desires on your rig...

Let us know how it turns out!

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by BLP

I
Also (and maybe most importantly), I didn't see any redundancy in your recorders. If you're planning on doing live concert recording, you've got to have a backup. Take the split early on in the signal path; I'd suggest using some pre's with dual outputs (like the Grace or True Systems) and going analog to your DAW and another s

good plan!

I played a gig once that got filmed with multiple cameras, cranes etc, but the recorder (alesis I think) crashed after a few minutes, so there was no audio. Very expensive mistake (luckily I was only a muso for the gig)

narco

[b808]

Originally Posted by John Suitcase

Looks like an interesting project!

What's your overall budget? And what is the goal of the unit, are you going to be doing recordings for DVD, or for CD release?

I'm thinking that there needs to be some serious budget for snakes, wireless talkback, etc. Also, you'll need to think about your power requirements, you may want some sort of significant filtering and uninterruptible supply.

You'll also need some A/C for the trailer, unless you're operating in a cold climate, where you might need heat.

Since you're talking about a pretty small rig, maybe you'd be better off doing what I do, loading into the facility to record, then mix back at your office/control room.

I think the main advantage of a trailer approach is if you have a large console that you're using. A DAW based rig can easily fit into a rack or two, and be set up and torn down in an hour.

My initial Budget will hopefully be slightly larger then what full sail will charge for their "degree" with housing and all.

Yeah a budget will go towards cables, splitters, and electrical. Totally seperate from this purchase.

I've done rack setups for a long time. Now I feel the need to have a rig that travels with me but always stays in one place (inside the trailer). Which also serves as a functioning studio when the live gigs are finished.

I'm starting with CD's and Stereo Mixes for DVD. Of course I do plan to upgrade to 5.1 within a year after this project but that's only if the demand calls for it.

[b808]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

You need to think hard about the ratios of space/cost/portability/practicality. The Bricks are a little odd to take with you and both the LA610 and the SuPREs take up a lot of space (and are probably very heavy). (And why not get a Grace m201 instead of two 101s?) After sacrificing the LA610 and the SuPREs, take a look at some rack units with MORE PREAMPS like the True Precision 8s that Steve used on his Dell Lounge sessions. And spend the extra money on more/better mics and other accoutrements like John mentioned.

Since you're doing worship service, you really need to make sure you have enough quality mics and pres for whatever is thrown at you.

Thanks. I love the bricks. Keeping them. I'm not really using them for the live part. This will be more for overdubs which tend to happen allot lately.

[BLP]

Originally Posted by narco

good plan!

I played a gig once that got filmed with multiple cameras, cranes etc, but the recorder (alesis I think) crashed after a few minutes, so there was no audio. Very expensive mistake (luckily I was only a muso for the gig)

narco

Yeah, that's a bloody nightmare. And the worst part? Clients wants to hear about "technical difficulties" or a glitch on a hard drive or whatever... They just want to hear the concert!

Speaking of that, b808, what's your power setup going to be? Depending on the size and locations of gigs your planning, you might need a generator, or at the least, a UPS for the critical gear.

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by BLP

Yeah, that's a bloody nightmare.

about $50k worth of nightmare!

actually the worst part was my band was paying for it..

narco

[b808]

Originally Posted by bongo

How are you going to do more than 16 tracks without that many preamps? Maybe I'm missing something.
I'm a Euphonix MC user. I don't see how the MC control will benefit you in a live situation. Also, I think you would be fine with 2 Mixes as they bank through tracks just fine.

I was thinking about tracking most of the signals direct from the split into our Soundcraft, D/O from there into the Lynx. I saw this being done at a concert which I was mixing monitors at. Although a much smaller system.
Again this is a mobile studio so I kind of like faders. I agree on the live part.

[b808]

Originally Posted by BLP

Yeah, that's a bloody nightmare. And the worst part? Clients wants to hear about "technical difficulties" or a glitch on a hard drive or whatever... They just want to hear the concert!

Speaking of that, b808, what's your power setup going to be? Depending on the size and locations of gigs your planning, you might need a generator, or at the least, a UPS for the critical gear.

Hey Brett.
Already got that covered. The trailer can be modified to include a generator with additional fuel storage tanks built in.

[FadersmakmeHappy]

A couple pieces to add:

Unless you are going with a firewire set up get a Mac Pro or Macbook Pro. The Imac only has a firewire connection. I bought an IMac and could not get the functionality I needed. Go with the Mac Pro, especially if you intend to mix the project. You will want the PCI card functionality for both Plug ins and connectivity via AES, etc. Latency will get you with firewire recording that many tracks. THe other option is to get a loaded Macbook Pro for mobile stuff and get a Express34 card for it. Either way you are going to want a boatload of RAM to keep that thing from crashing, at least 4GB and probably 6 is safer.


If you are going to use the Soundcraft board, I would probably use a lunch box of pre-amps (like API's) or the True Pre's that others have mentioned. You get 8 pres for around 2k. The Vipre is cool as a lead vocal front end, but you will sink a lot of dough into it. I think the soundcraft has decent pres for most live stuff?

Might want to just get a Radar Rig for how much you are dropping into the AD/DA conversion and Mac Rig. Those things are badass and never crash.

[Remoteness]

You must check out this thread if you didn't get a chance to yet...

Thinking of putting together a remote trailer

I found it by using the "Poplular Tags" list at the top of this forums's main page.

I clicked on "build for remote" and got a list of valuable information for review.

Furthermore, permanently mounting a generator on board the trailer is a very bad idea.
You never have enough space to build the proper isolation mounts and panels to make this work for you. Consider a roll-out design with some feeder so you can place the Genie as far away from your CRM as possible.

[b808]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

You must check out this thread if you didn't get a chance to yet...

Thinking of putting together a remote trailer

I found it by using the "Poplular Tags" list at the top of this forums's main page.

I clicked on "build for remote" and got a list of valuable information for review.

Furthermore, permanently mounting a generator on board the trailer is a very bad idea.
You never have enough space to build the proper isolation mounts and panels to make this work for you. Consider a roll-out design with some feeder so you can place the Genie as far away from your CRM as possible.

Thanks Steve. I wasnt aware of that. Would it be a better idea to include cabling for pluging into local power?

[b808]

Originally Posted by FadersmakmeHappy

A couple pieces to add:

Unless you are going with a firewire set up get a Mac Pro or Macbook Pro. The Imac only has a firewire connection. I bought an IMac and could not get the functionality I needed. Go with the Mac Pro, especially if you intend to mix the project. You will want the PCI card functionality for both Plug ins and connectivity via AES, etc. Latency will get you with firewire recording that many tracks. THe other option is to get a loaded Macbook Pro for mobile stuff and get a Express34 card for it. Either way you are going to want a boatload of RAM to keep that thing from crashing, at least 4GB and probably 6 is safer.


If you are going to use the Soundcraft board, I would probably use a lunch box of pre-amps (like API's) or the True Pre's that others have mentioned. You get 8 pres for around 2k. The Vipre is cool as a lead vocal front end, but you will sink a lot of dough into it. I think the soundcraft has decent pres for most live stuff?

Might want to just get a Radar Rig for how much you are dropping into the AD/DA conversion and Mac Rig. Those things are badass and never crash.

I'vd look hard into 500 series. If I go that route I will have to make som sacrifices.
Radar is out of the question.

[RichS]

Just an observation...

Don't like trailers -- easily stolen by anyone with a hitch. Is this thing going to be locked in a safe enclosed area or garage when not being used?

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by b808

Thanks Steve. I wasnt aware of that. Would it be a better idea to include cabling for pluging into local power?

Oh yes, the feeder you have for the Genie could also be used for the house power run when applicable.

If you're in the NYC area, give us a call, we may give you a tour of our field shop...

You never know.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by RichS

Just an observation...

Don't like trailers -- easily stolen by anyone with a hitch. Is this thing going to be locked in a safe enclosed area or garage when not being used?

Yeah, you should consider taking the wheels off the trailer on multiple day events, during the over nights or when security or yourself is not around.

If you have the budget a wheel boot would be a lot easier to deal with than removing your wheels every time you're on location and away from your rig.

[BLP]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

If you have the budget a wheel boot would be a lot easier to deal with than removing your wheels every time you're on location and away from your rig.

Followed by the world's first cheerful exclamation of "Yes! I'm still booted!"