Cardioid pair and/or stereo ribbon to complement my DPA 4006 TLs

[newyorker42]

I've worked for quite a long while with my only mics, a pair of DPA 4006TLs. Now I would like to get a cardioid pair and/or a stereo ribbon mic as my next step.

Here is what I am considering currently after much reading and listening to samples...

Cardioid pair:
Beyer MC930
Schoeps CMC6 MK4

Ribbon:
AEA R88
Royer SF24

My big question is... now that I am accustomed to DPA quality, am I going to want the Schoeps and the Royer the next day if I go with the "lower end" options? Anyone have any experience with buyers' remorse in a situation like this, or words of wisdom to pass on?

John

[Larry Elliott]

John

I too have 4006’s and just brought a pair of Sen 8040 to compliment them. I find it a good combination.

Regards
Larry Elliott

[BrianHanke]

Since you already have a high-end pair, it makes sense to buy high-end again. The Schoeps would be a good option, but as an alternative I highly recommend the Neumann KM 100 series. They're less expensive than the CMCs and give you just as many options. You can choose between many different capsules and of course the sound quality is fantastic.

[hakanai]

i have worked with schoeps and the royer. very different choices. two things i would say:

1. why are you getting a second pair of mics? is character options or is it to have a choice in patterns for different situations? if you like the sound you are getting with the dpa's then i would say the schoeps but if you want a different zaz, then the ribbon.

2. I wouldn't disregard the AEA as the Lower end choice. i would want to hear the two choices next to eachother. the royer was great when i used it but i wouldn't buy one without hearing the AEA first.

[boojum]

I have the 4006 TL's, too, and have Schoeps CMC64's. I bought the Schoeps because I liked their sound. It can be a bit more flattering than the DPA's. And they do not have the same low end, but that is because the are cardioids.

I would suggest you listen to as many of your choices as possible. Most of us will suggest what we have as we chose that based on our own particular tastes which may not be the same as yours.

I am attaching a mic graph which purports to assay mics and their flavors. I hope it helps. It is from: The Listening Sessions

[fifthcircle]

As it was mentioned before, the AEA is certainly not "low end."

I think the answer to your question will be based on how you decide to use these mics. Are you going to use them as a main pair and flanks? Or... 2 pairs or mains and spots or... There are lots of choices and each would provide a great recording.

1. Main and flanks. I'd probably go with a good ORTF pair. I find that with my 4006's I go for either Schoeps MK4 or Sennheiser 8040 as my first choices. (I also have MKH40 and KM140 amongst others in my collection). The choice of the Schoeps or Sennheiser depends on the room, how much "dig" into the group I need and the tonal focus to balance the 4006's. I will also modify the 4006 wides with balls and different grids depending on my needs. The issue with blumlein pairs is one of integration of disperate images. It can work (and very well), but it is difficult. Blumlein is very accurate and spaced omnis aren't. To make them work together with such different sounds is tough- I find that I usually lower the level of the flanks and space them a bit closer to the mains to make it work.

2. Main and spots. Probably a pair of cardiods would be most useful here. I'd probably go schoeps as the character (or lack) makes them easy to integrate.

3. 2 mains- the AEA can be an absolutely beautiful sounding mic. Big and open with the best qualities that a ribbon can offer. That said, I have an SF-24 here as it is easier to deal with on location where cable runs can be a beast.

--Ben

[jnorman]

you should also consider the DPA 4011s. i have owned both CMC64s and 4011s, and i found the 4011s to be a more flexible mic overall. both were excellent as main ORTF pairs, but i felt the schoeps mk4 capsule was a tad boomy as a spot mic in the studio. the 4011 is one of the cleanest, most transparent mics i have ever used as a spot for violin, cello, and for close micing a grand piano.

[newyorker42]

Thanks to all for the advice.

After some consideration, I think I am going to go with a pair of cardioids first and stick with the Schoeps.

Eventually I do want to be able to do blumlein, but that'll have to wait because I don't want to lay out all that cash at once. And certainly, the cardioids will give me more options for now. I'm interested in expanding from doing mainly piano to chamber music, so that's what these will be used for. I like the idea of trying ORTF w/ my DPAs as flanks, but also having the option to use the DPAs as mains with the Schoeps for spots is appealing. Having done AB only for more than a year, I will be swimming with options!

[BLP]

Amen on the Schoeps! I find them to be a nice, pleasing contrast to DPA's. I think you'll find them to help you cover a portion of the mic spectrum that the 4011's just wouldn't hit. I'll second (or third, or fourth) the sentiment the AEA are in no way lower-end than the Royers. It may just be my own little bias, but I kinda feel they're nicer for classical stuff...

[Empiria]

AEA R88 is my friend. It's hi-end ribbon mic. A price difference between Royer and AEA does not mean quality difference. I have a pair of Schoeps MK21 that I like very much but, on some sources I often choose R88 as a main. Specially if a room is not as perfect as everyone always want to have.

[matthewd]

Hi there John

I went through this decision making process for a couple of installations here in Cambridge and Oxford where they were planning to webcast evensong. 4006s ended up in both chapels. In one they are combined with DPA4011s which I have to say I was not impressed with by themselves but in combination with the 4006s seemed to work very well indeed. In the interim, Sennheiser came up with the 8040s and actually fancied reducing the visual impact of the installation by having 8020 omnis and 8040 cardioids. However, we felt the full frequency response of the 8040s which go down lower than most cardioids gave us almost too much warmth so ended up with 4006s and 8040s as someone else has suggested. The 8040s are cheaper and have the size benefit as I said so for my money (if I had any left), I'd probably go for the 8040s which can also work as a main pair in their own right in a way I don't think the 4011s really can as I find they lack bass but maybe others will disagee.

Thats my humble opinion anyhow - after all, our ears are all different.

Matt

[sonare]

Originally Posted by matthewd

Hi there John

I went through this decision making process for a couple of installations here in Cambridge and Oxford where they were planning to webcast evensong. 4006s ended up in both chapels. In one they are combined with DPA4011s which I have to say I was not impressed with by themselves but in combination with the 4006s seemed to work very well indeed. In the interim, Sennheiser came up with the 8040s and actually fancied reducing the visual impact of the installation by having 8020 omnis and 8040 cardioids. However, we felt the full frequency response of the 8040s which go down lower than most cardioids gave us almost too much warmth so ended up with 4006s and 8040s as someone else has suggested. The 8040s are cheaper and have the size benefit as I said so for my money (if I had any left), I'd probably go for the 8040s which can also work as a main pair in their own right in a way I don't think the 4011s really can as I find they lack bass but maybe others will disagee.

Thats my humble opinion anyhow - after all, our ears are all different.

Matt

I remember the original thread and wondered what you ended up putting where. Are you using 8040 for organ spots?

Rich

[matthewd]

We were limited by where the servoreeler mic winches could physically be but we have an array with the 4006s and 4011s on a bar. There are some KM184s on the organ and some KM183s in the antechapel.

Matt