Soundcraft EPM vs Mackie VLZ

[MichaelPatrick]

Mackie VLZ and Soundcraft EPM mixers are about the same price.

I have a Mackie VLZ 1202 but need something that small but that sounds better, and with sliding faders. Budget is limited for this as it's just for rough mixes on live acoustic recordings.

Does anyone know if Soundcraft's EPM8 is quieter or has better EQ than Mackie VLZ?

P.S. I don't care about the mic pres as I'm only mixing line levels, but with EQ.

[huub]

In my humble opinion the mackies have better build and sound quality than the cheap soundcrafts..
And the plastic faders move if you slam a door
The soundcraft does have 1 sweepable eq band though.. That'll help you for rough mixes obviously..

[Sonic Lush]

hey Michael, what is your budget?

I picked up a used mackie onyx on craigslist and it works great, although the 12 channel base model is a little larger than the old vlz series (I think)

if you're just mixing line level sources why not get something cheap like a
Manley 16x2 line mixer

[MichaelPatrick]

Budget is cheap, else I'd go for that Manley.

What are the Onyx EQs like? That's my biggest single concern. The VLZ EQs are anything but musical, and the whole board is noisy.

Originally Posted by Sonic Lush

hey Michael, what is your budget?

I picked up a used mackie onyx on craigslist and it works great, although the 12 channel base model is a little larger than the old vlz series (I think)

if you're just mixing line level sources why not get something cheap like a
Manley 16x2 line mixer

[JEGG]

Have you tried the latest VLZ products? They have a different EQ than those in the past. The curves and interaction are different, at least on paper. Sorry to say I haven't heard them, but those who have have liked them, and noticed a significant difference in the preamps, too.

The Mackie of the most recent past or the current version should be extremely quiet. Something is wrong somewhere with the board or gain structure if you have a recent product and it's noisy. The EQ was terrible in the past-and maybe present, but then if you needed just a very small bit, it was OK, especially subtractive EQ in the lower end and mid range, and very small adjustments in the higher end. If you need more EQ, you might try different mic's or position them differently.

I found using the direct outs of the preamps into the returns provided a much cleaner path. I use very few mic's, but a main pair through the returns leaves you with another set of returns for another pair, or using the pre's through the board for a few spot mic's works very well, especially if they require panning!

When I used lower end Soundcraft products in the past, most everything was terrible except for the EQ-and it was great-at very useful turn over points, and good slopes. And the boards were fun colors, too.

I haven't tried anything in their line(s) for years, so I can't comment on their current products.

The Mackies are now made in China, and the boards don't seem quite as robust as before, but maybe that's just me.

[Sonic Lush]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

Budget is cheap, else I'd go for that Manley.

What are the Onyx EQs like? That's my biggest single concern. The VLZ EQs are anything but musical, and the whole board is noisy.

not sure of all the differences between newest VLZ and Onyx but I can say that the Onyx is not noisy, and the eq doesn't suck.

to my ears, the older Mackies, and up through the VLZ would, um...

stack with cack.

you know, the Mackie Cackie??

the Onyx sheds this and works well for me.

I should probably zip it as my last experience with VLZ was a 1604 that
I sold about seven years ago.

whenever possible, I'm trying to put passive DI's before the Onyx (for live)
and it really helps.

live shows when people have their crappy little active gtr pickups plugged into crappy active DI's and then into a mixer with phantom power.....hey that sounds like tin sh*t.

as for eq--I typically use subtractive with the Onyx, but I'd like to hear your thoughts if you get a chance to try it out.

good luck and happy holidays
walter

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by JEGG

Have you tried the latest VLZ products? They have a different EQ than those in the past. The curves and interaction are different, at least on paper. Sorry to say I haven't heard them, but those who have have liked them, and noticed a significant difference in the preamps, too.

The Mackie of the most recent past or the current version should be extremely quiet. Something is wrong somewhere with the board or gain structure if you have a recent product and it's noisy. The EQ was terrible in the past-and maybe present, but then if you needed just a very small bit, it was OK, especially subtractive EQ in the lower end and mid range, and very small adjustments in the higher end. If you need more EQ, you might try different mic's or position them differently.

I found using the direct outs of the preamps into the returns provided a much cleaner path. I use very few mic's, but a main pair through the returns leaves you with another set of returns for another pair, or using the pre's through the board for a few spot mic's works very well, especially if they require panning!

When I used lower end Soundcraft products in the past, most everything was terrible except for the EQ-and it was great-at very useful turn over points, and good slopes. And the boards were fun colors, too.

I haven't tried anything in their line(s) for years, so I can't comment on their current products.

The Mackies are now made in China, and the boards don't seem quite as robust as before, but maybe that's just me.

Thanks for your thoughtful replay and useful info! My 1202 is the 2nd VLZ model, not version 3.

For this kind of mixing I use EQ just to cut LFs from spot mics in order to prevent buildup and image smearing. I won't use the preamps, the inputs will be line level from a Lynx Aurora 8 converter.

Although the 1402VLZ3 is larger than I'd like, I can live with it if the sound is good.