What's the quietest mic available (lowest noise)? for nature recordings

[Fran Guidry]

I have no idea if this mic will meet the need, but Shure is claiming 4 dB of self noise for the new KSM44A.

Shure Americas | KSM44A Multi-Pattern Large Dual-Diaphragm Side-Address Condenser Microphone | Premium, Acoustic, Studio, Live Sound

Fran

[Rolo 46]

LDCs are hopeless for exteriors
There are no Rycotes for these mics and they are more susceptible for wind noise than SDCs.

[Earcatcher]

Originally Posted by AB3

I have a pair of Sennheiser 8070s which I believe are 8db noise level, which is very quiet. I never hear the mics. The ambience is always louder.

I had a pair of Rode NTG-3s. I cannot hear the difference in noise level IN NATURE RECORDING, because the outside ambience is always louder.

I have tried recording in all different setting, and the ambient noise always seems louder than the mic noise.

The NTG-3s are great sounding mics. Have not tried the Schoeps so I am not sure if the price difference is warranted. Also, the Rodes and Sennheisers I understand perform better in humid conditions.

I have both NTG3 and CMIT 5U. NTG3 is indeed the mic I would suggest first for the OP, because of its very low noise and lack of off-axis coloration. It is very comparable to the Sennheiser 416. The 416 is slightly more directional, but has awful off-axis coloration, so for nature recordings the Røde is simply the better sounding one. More open and natural with lower self-noise. Both the 416 and the NTG3 share the RF principle. (I believe it was Røde's design goal aimed directly at the position of the 416 to offer a serious alternative at a fraction of the price - and they succeeded very well.)

NTG3 compared to CMIT 5U: CMIT is far more focused and dry sounding off-axis. Just perfect for typical film/dialogue use. So when I go out to capture ambient nature sounds I mostly use the Røde, while the Schoeps is used primarily on set, or even in the theatre to pick up soloists at a distance. Both are very beautiful microphones and in between them I see no reason of owning a Sennheiser 416.

[John Willett]

The MKH 416 is a 40 year old design and I certainly would not recommend it for nature recordings nowadays. The NTG3, as I understand, is Rode's attempt to copy this old design.

Compared to the MKH 60, the 416 is low output and noisy.

The MKH 60 is much better and much quieter and the new MKH 8060 is better still.

My personal choice would be between the MKH 8060 and the Schoeps SuperCMIT.

The RF condenser MKH mics are the safest in the wet (law of physics), but the Schoeps do hold up better than most AF condensers in the damp.

If you seriously want a quality low noise mic. for nature recordings, I would choose between:-
Sennheiser MKH 8060
Sennheiser MKH 60
Schoeps SuperCMIT
Schoeps CMIT 5U

The SuperCMIT does have the added advantage that you can record two channels - the first being the gun capsule which is identical to the CMIT 5U and the second being the more directional processed version - so you can choose at a later date.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app

[David Spearritt]

Originally Posted by Audiop

I'm sure the Schoeps alternatives are worth considering for many situations but when I look for a low noise device you can be confident that I'm actually looking for a low noise device though.

I have a bunch of mic's and I'm looking for something with lower noise than those I have.

Did I mention low noise? ;-)

Oh, and thanks but it's been many years since anyone called me a boy. :-)


/Peter

OK, then you need this.
½-inch Low-noise Microphone system 5Hz to 20kHz, Externally Polarized - Brüel & Kjær

5.5dBA noise floor, 1.1V/Pa !!! All titanium. Love it. I want two.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

OK, then you need this.
½-inch Low-noise Microphone system 5Hz to 20kHz, Externally Polarized - Brüel & Kjær

5.5dBA noise floor, 1.1V/Pa !!! All titanium. Love it. I want two.

But no good for outdoor recording of nature sounds.

I noticed on the Neumann titanium capsule that they specifically said not to be used outdoors.

[David Spearritt]

Originally Posted by John Willett

But no good for outdoor recording of nature sounds.

I noticed on the Neumann titanium capsule that they specifically said not to be used outdoors.

Well it seems you can't always infer one manufacturers specs from another's. The specs for the B&K mic are 1-100% relative humidity, non condensing and -20 to 100 deg C temp range, Influence of humidity <0.1dB.

These are certainly much more substantial environmental credentials than any Sennheiser studio mic for use outdoors.

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

OK, then you need this.
½-inch Low-noise Microphone system 5Hz to 20kHz, Externally Polarized - Brüel & Kjær

5.5dBA noise floor, 1.1V/Pa !!! All titanium. Love it. I want two.

Not what I was looking for right now but it looks very interesting, thanks for the tip.

I'd like directivity and higher SPL capability though.

Would not mind trying those B&K as ambience and room mic's though.


/Peter

[boojum]

Does anyone have a ballpark idea of what the ambient noise level is for these nature recordings? The mic noise levels are getting very low in this thread. I use a 4061 for recording music with a live audience and the ambient noise covers whatever mic noise there might be. I am wondering if there comes a time when the noise level is a moot point? A level that it is lower than ambient noise.

[Rolo 46]

Depends on your location,as ever.
High canopy rainforest can be spookily quiet during daytime ,like a hushed cathedral and at dawn/dusk/ night ,noisy as hell, complete with all animal and bird noise and the fall of heavy branches and trunks.
Deserts can be incredibly quiet, especially at night when the sky is magical and sats and meteors evident but mute.
In the tundra its quiet too, high flying aircraft have a special wonder as their engines phase and echo with one another.
It is possible to hear The Northern Lights crackling and fizzing.
Glaciers calving, superb.

Insects are a problem in the tropics and semi tropics, cicadas, noisy buggers.
Mostly its wind noise, in trees and grass and on the Rycote, that is most evident.
The parabola cuts through most of this for Bird Song.
For atmospheres in MS, I like wind noise.
Spent may hours recording it in all known locations.

Even undersea noise is evident , shrimps chatter like cicadas and Tankers and container ships drone like busses.
Under sea ice recordings sound like a cathedral, with fab reflections.

One a field trial for the first Sony pro DAT, which had excellent pres, I was in Tobago recording a dawn chorus across a large lake with an MKH 40/30 MS rig.
The Parakeets and Howlers etc had risen to a huge crescendo and then all went deadly silent, seconds later 2 Tornados screamed across the lake flat out.
A true test of mic pres... They passed.

Roger

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Rolo 46

Depends on your location,as ever.
High canopy rainforest can be spookily quiet during daytime ,like a hushed cathedral and at dawn/dusk/ night ,noisy as hell, complete with all animal and bird noise and the fall of heavy branches and trunks.
Deserts can be incredibly quiet, especially at night when the sky is magical and sats and meteors evident but mute.
In the tundra its quiet too, high flying aircraft have a special wonder as their engines phase and echo with one another.
It is possible to hear The Northern Lights crackling and fizzing.
Glaciers calving, superb.

Insects are a problem in the tropics and semi tropics, cicadas, noisy buggers.
Mostly its wind noise, in trees and grass and on the Rycote, that is most evident.
The parabola cuts through most of this for Bird Song.
For atmospheres in MS, I like wind noise.
Spent may hours recording it in all known locations.

Even undersea noise is evident , shrimps chatter like cicadas and Tankers and container ships drone like busses.
Under sea ice recordings sound like a cathedral, with fab reflections.

One a field trial for the first Sony pro DAT, which had excellent pres, I was in Tobago recording a dawn chorus across a large lake with an MKH 40/30 MS rig.
The Parakeets and Howlers etc had risen to a huge crescendo and then all went deadly silent, seconds later 2 Tornados screamed across the lake flat out.
A true test of mic pres... They passed.

Roger

That's a recording I would like to hear.

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by boojum

Does anyone have a ballpark idea of what the ambient noise level is for these nature recordings? The mic noise levels are getting very low in this thread. I use a 4061 for recording music with a live audience and the ambient noise covers whatever mic noise there might be. I am wondering if there comes a time when the noise level is a moot point? A level that it is lower than ambient noise.

I've heard lovely recordings with 4061 but just as with the Earthworks omnis I own there is just to much noise in some situations. The noise drop from the QTC1 to MKH8020 was very nice to experience.

The lowest noise directive mic's I have are the MKH8040 and MKH8050 and sometimes I hear that noise (13dBA) and therefore I would like something with lower noise than that. MKH8060 (11dBA) is only 2dB down and I'm not sure I would feel that is enough of an improvement. The MKH8060 is much more sensitive though so that means I would get by with less preamp gain which could translate to slightly lower noise.


/Peter

[Rolo 46]

Originally Posted by John Willett

That's a recording I would like to hear.

Deep in the BBC NHU library there is a Sony DAT Tape 120 where the mech is seizing up and the coating buckling and shedding.
Sad way to go..

Roger

[Plush]

Ahhh--but it's already been backed up on analog tape (BASF 911) right?

[Rolo 46]

The BBC used to print its FX disc to 45 rpm for easy use
Also to carts (BBC PEG machine excellent)
My friend and I would compete for the silliest tracks on an FX disc.
Mine was a genuine track of Piranha grunting, we were in Suriname catching Piranha to eat,chicken bones are thrown in the water and and a machete used to impale the massing predators (quite difficult..)
The fish lying on a plate, waiting to be cooked, were grunting, this I recorded.

He recorded 'Gold Fish crying', this was a total fabrication.
Both got used in a comedy programme.

[apple-q]

New Neumann 9dB(a):

Neumann Releases KMR 81D & DMI-2 « Sonic Terrain

[studioleorec]

I don't know about the "quietest" but Sennheiser MKH800 is VERY quiet and give VERY strong signal.

[Jim Williams]

If you want a hyper cardiode mic that's very quiet and cheap, look at a MCA SP-1. Those sell for under 50 bucks. Self noise is around 9~10 db, but with low noise transistors and upping the polarization voltage they lower to around 5~6 db. They are flat to 7 k and lift smoothly + 3 db at 20 k hz. If you get soaked recording in a rain storm (why I would never know) you can drop another 50 bucks and replace it.

With a mic that quiet, I usually always hear random air movement noise over any electronic hiss.

Then you need to address the EIN (equivalent input noise) specs of the mic preamp. If that is also not very low, the preamp will add more hiss than the mic as usually nature recordings are done from distance at high gains.

Look to mic preamps with -129 db EIN or more at 150 ohms. That will eliminate nearly all transformer coupled designs. Some do better than that with lower source impedances. As an example, that cheapo MCA mic is 22 ohms output impedance, active without iron. That lowers the EIN of some designs to below -133 db EIN, quite good.

It's the combination of a low noise mic and a low noise preamp that will make or break these recordings. Off axis rejection can also lower ambient sounds you don't want to pick up, so consider a shotgun for those situations.

[Rolo 46]

JW are you taking the piss ?
That Chinese duplicate will never withstand the rigours of rain ,wind and humidity....
Parabolas for Bird Song
MS shotgun RF SDC for atmospheres.
Roger

[Jack Luminous]

Originally Posted by boojum

I disagree with Josephson that water does not conduct electricity. I always thought it was a pretty good conductor and got worse shocks when my hands were wet. If I am wrong here let me know. But I do agree that the noise problem would be worsened by dirt.

Actually, Mr. Josephson is right. Pure water does not conduct electricity at all. It is the contaminants in it that conduct electricity. But it is a bit far fetched to tell that "water does not conduct electricity" in normal conditions. Water is always contaminated so it always conducts electricity unless you are in a very special lab environment.

[richgilb]

Originally Posted by Rolo 46

JW are you taking the piss ?
That Chinese duplicate will never withstand the rigours of rain ,wind and humidity....
Parabolas for Bird Song
MS shotgun RF SDC for atmospheres.
Roger

I think one of his points might be that, considering other expensive mics could also get damaged, replacement costs make this mic an interesting option.

[Rolo 46]

What is the point of Kleenex Mikes
Use once and throw away is not a pro attitude.

[richgilb]

Originally Posted by Rolo 46

What is the point of Kleenex Mikes
Use once and throw away is not a pro attitude.

I have no opinion about that