Stereo Pair SDC Recommendation for Live Recording

[sevendaysoff]

Hello,
just got a gig doing some live recording (a somewhat grey area for me), an orchestra / lecture type session.

anyways, the guy who had the gig before me used 2 SDC's (from the pictures ive seen), mounted in the front center of the room, then a 58 mounted to the podium for the lecture stuff.

I'm going to take the same approach, but as this is going to be a steady gig im going to drop some cash on a pair of SDC's to use. I plan on strapping an 57 to the podium but im not sure about which SDC's to use.

I'll be using shadow hill gama mic pre's , I'd like to be able to get good use out of these mics in studio applications as well (dual purpose).

Any recommendations? My budget will be $1500 . not sure about which patterns and mounting configurations would work best, but i plan on doing some experimenting once i have the mics.

also, would a stereo comp be a good idea and possible life saver, any recommendations? Just trying to cover all bases.

thanks !

[sevendaysoff]

forgot to mentuion I have KM184's . not sure about in a live scenario though.

was looking at some of the earthworks stuff.

[d_fu]

Consider a pair of Beyerdynamic MC 930.

[Corran]

You could easily afford a nice set of Earthworks omnis or cardioids for that. I love mine, I have a set of each. But how does the place sound?

For ultimate versatility you might want to get something with multiple capsules like the Oktava 012 set, or maybe a Shure KSM 137 pair that can switch between omni and cardioid easily.

[sevendaysoff]

thanks, will check out both. the place sounds good for what it is (auditorium environment), although i always find auditoriums a little boomy.

which earthworks do you suggest? Iwill check into the beyers too. Also, I know its source dependent but for this general type of setup which usually works best, cardioid or omni? As I said, I have a pair of KM184's , not sure whether to try ORTF, XY or M/S.

Do KM184's get any love for live use? Maybe I will try one setup on mics in ortf and the others in XY to see which tracks turn out best the 1st time. I can use my KM184's for one setup and the new mics for another.

any thoughts?

[Corran]

With a pair of cardioids you'll have to do either X-Y or ORTF. I like ORTF usually. Lately though I have been getting great results with two omnis in A-B, but it's gotta sound good in the room (hence my question). If it's too reverberant you'll probably want the cardioids. If you go with the Earthworks you'll love the sound but if you don't have the right polar pattern for the situation you're screwed...

If you spend just a little more you might could get both a pair of QTC-30s and SR-30s (also known as SR-77s) for about $1800-$2000 used. I got my SR-77s for $600 and a pair of QTC-1s for another $1100, but I was super-lucky .

[springer]

No need to purchase anything else right now - your km184's will do nicely in ORTF or my favorite NOS. Setup about 15-20 feet behind conductor and as high as you can get. Distance will depend on variables like crowd noise, reverbation time of the room, logistics, etc...
Good Luck.

[hummer]

Originally Posted by springer

No need to purchase anything else right now - your km184's will do nicely in ORTF or my favorite NOS. Setup about 15-20 feet behind conductor and as high as you can get. Distance will depend on variables like crowd noise, reverbation time of the room, logistics, etc...
Good Luck.

+1

[sevendaysoff]

thanks guys. is it common to use a 2 channel compressor to control peaks and prevent clipping? or is my inexperience in this field making be extra cautious.

also, since im going to go ahead and use the km184's . would a spot mic be worth while for some low end or room ambiance? I want everything to turn out great and im thinking a spot mic (like drum room mic) may give me extra options at mix down. recommendations, position, or just unnecessary?

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by springer

No need to purchase anything else right now - your km184's will do nicely in ORTF or my favourite NOS. Setup about 15-20 feet behind conductor and as high as you can get. Distance will depend on variables like crowd noise, reverberation time of the room, logistics, etc...
Good Luck.

+2

[fifthcircle]

A pair of 184's should do you fine. There are of course plenty of mics that I prefer more, but I've gotten plenty of usable results out of a pair of 184's back in the day. (once that was my only "good" pair of mics as well). I even had some clients prefer what I was doing with thsoe to what others were doing with Schoeps. It is all about where you place the mics and the sound you are going for that you have in your head before you start.'

The distance and height you set up should depend on the room. I find for large ensembles, the sweet spot is usually about 6-10 feet out depending on the group and the room. I also usually start at 8-10 feet over the floor height.

In the end, regardless of what any of us say, use your ears and you'll be fine.

--Ben

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by d_fu

Consider a pair of Beyerdynamic MC 930.

I agree.

I like the MC930s much better than KM184s for acoustic ensemble recording. I sold my Neumanns after trying a pair of the Beyers. The good thing about KM184s is the name of their maker -- they resell easily.

[sevendaysoff]

thanks again everybody.

no need to worry about a spot/room mic or compressor then i suppose?

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by sevendaysoff

thanks again everybody.

no need to worry about a spot/room mic or compressor then i suppose?

Spot mics are often useful and sometimes required. Any decent SDC cardiod should do it.

For live acoustic ensembles the odd or occasional peaks, IMO, should be manually edited, not with a compressor or limiter. More often than not they are not even caused by music, but rather by someone dropping something, slamming a door, and so on. Even if it is music, take note that compressors have their own way of rewriting the dynamics -- and that's something to be cautious about. It's best not to mess with it.

If you have an OK room and you've selected OK mics, and you've placed them well, then the dynamics will be about right -- needing little if any compression or limiting. If you put mics too close to something then the dynamics will not be natural and you'll end up having to finish the artist's job in post production by controlling the dynamics there. It's best to avoid that.

I don't use a limiter to prevent digital overs while recording. With 24 bits and good equipment you should be able to leave enough headroom to prevent that.

When I do compress it's not to push down the natural peaks, it's usually to bring up some detail that's lost because it's down too close to the noise floor. For that parallel compression is best, and only on the parts where needed. People used to ride faders to accomplish this kind of leveling, and it's also a good technique to use during mixdown if sparingly applied.

[NorseHorse]

Originally Posted by springer

No need to purchase anything else right now - your km184's will do nicely in ORTF or my favorite NOS. Setup about 15-20 feet behind conductor and as high as you can get. Distance will depend on variables like crowd noise, reverbation time of the room, logistics, etc...
Good Luck.

+1

...not that there aren't other things you could use, but since you've already got them, I'd use 'em.

[MichaelPatrick]

I didn't read enough (bad me) to note that you have access to some 184s. Like others have said, they'll work for you.

I thought you were going to put down money. If that was the case, I'd check out several options - AKG, Neumann, Sennheiser, Shure, and others.

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by Corran

For ultimate versatility you might want to get something with multiple capsules like the Oktava 012 set, or maybe a Shure KSM 137 pair that can switch between omni and cardioid easily.

You mean the Shure KSM 141, right? It's switchable and sounds very, very good.

[Corran]

Whoops, my bad. Yeah the 137 is just cardioid and the 141 has switchable patterns.

Thanks!