Recording and Broadcast from a Helicopter?

[fifthcircle]

I'm spec'ing out a job right now that involves the live sound recording and amplification of people in helicopters. There are going to be 4 of them, each requiring 2 or 3 channels of sound. Fidelity is really important here (yes, I know- good luck), and I even have to mount microphones on the outsides of the helicopters to capture the rotor sound from up close. The helicopters may be as far away as a 2-3 miles from the venue.

That is the easy part- what I don't know about is how the best way for the transmission to happen. There also may be a monitor system set up to wirelessly enable the people to communicate and hit cues together. Once again, that part is easy as the distances aren't that great.

Ideas on what equipment to start with?

Thanks!

--Ben

[resound]

Please tell me the Stockhausen quartet isn't being revived!!!!!

[fifthcircle]

I can say nothing as of now, but I'm not sure how to handle some of the tech aspects. Believe me, when it is announced (if it happens), I can say more.

--Ben

[resound]

Wow. Well, if there's any professional challenge as an engineer, this will certainly be one for the memoirs.

My thoughts about the piece, its origins, the composer, his "cult", etc. leave me a bit more guarded. This was a budget buster when it first happened, and I'll wager a sure bet that despite the ensuing years, nothing has changed in that regard (e.g., we're not all flying around in our personal 'copters as Frank Lloyd Wright envisioned).

I honestly have nothing to add to your question that might be helpful, but will be an excited and earnest lurker awaiting further news and others' advice.

Good luck!

[iluvatar]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

I even have to mount microphones on the outsides of the helicopters to capture the rotor sound from up close.

<snip>

Ideas on what equipment to start with?

Some sort of windscreen would be helpful.

-Dan.

[DanDan]

Hi Ben, Wow, what a task. DPA make a range of subminiature mics.
The 4061 for instance should be OK for outside the helo. It comes with a little windshield and is good to 144dB SPL. DPA also make mics for vocal use in theatre, opera, etc. - 4088B. These are headworn and reach at least to the corner of the mouth. All the DPA's are designed to be impervious to moisture. They also sound superb. They are available with Lemo or other connectors to interface with wireless systems. I thoroughly recommend these mics. I recorded a Carillon, 100M up in the air in the Bellfry of St. Coleman's Cathedral Cobh Ireland using 4061's. Very windy, damp, very high SPL's. It worked out great. If there is not enough gain at the side of the mouth position I suggest you check out other headworn mics, used by the rock n' rollers. I don't know the models but I have seen ones which go directly in front which may have a better voice to helo ratio. Madonna, Peter Gabriel etc. That's all I've got. You will need a wireless wizard to do the rest.
Good Luck, DD
Sound Sound - Homepage

[Doc Mixwell]

Can't you wait until the Chopper lands, and stops its motor?

Just kidding, if anything I would use a dynamic microphone with an AFRO sized windscreen or sock.

[fifthcircle]

As I mentioned in the first post, the micing and short-distance communication is really not the issue here. What is a far more difficult problem is how to get many channels of sound back to a base site for a live broadcast of what is happening. And unfortunately, for this to work, fidelity is king. Communications grade sound just won't cut it.

--Ben

[DanDan]

Perhaps there is a two level answer. Maybe you could have a 'ground station' under where the chopper is flying. With clear line of sight and good antennae I reckon you would get quite a range with high grade concert wireless gear. The 'ground station' could then use a much more powerful link back to the the broadcast home. The broadcaster would have such links in their trucks already. If this scenario were possible, the talent could also have wireless foldback, again borrowed from the concert world.
DD

[jnorman]

hmmm - 3 mile long snake?

[big country]

dont they have a cool phase cancel deal for the mic in air planes and choppers

[cppi]

Ben, First I would contact Professional Wireless Systems at 407-240-2880 to first solve the distance problem. They are one of the best when it comes to critical wireless problems, they do the superbowl (over 1500 channels of rf) and other very high profile shows. If it can be done wirelessly they will know the best way to do it!
Second thing is I hope this show happens before the end of February 09 when all HELL breaks loose on ALL wireless systems in America. We all will loose over 30% of the available freq's from 698mhz thru 806mhz (tv channels 52 thru 69). They have been sold off to Verizon and ATT for a new class of consumer devices, and ALL TV's station will broadcast below that with us digitally (a much wider bandwith than analog) in a already crowed spectrum.
Even if you can overcome the distance issue you will (we will) have to find the "White Spaces" to work in.
This is a problem all of us face who work with any rf mics, rf comm. and in ear devices. Good luck to us all.

[matyas]

Originally Posted by VukOnCrack

Please tell me the Stockhausen quartet isn't being revived!!!!!

He was pretty much out to lunch, yes, but I actually really dig Stockhausen. And I'd totally got to see a performance of the Helikopter-Streichquartett.

[Berolzheimer]

Originally Posted by DanDan

Perhaps there is a two level answer. Maybe you could have a 'ground station' under where the chopper is flying. With clear line of sight and good antennae I reckon you would get quite a range with high grade concert wireless gear. The 'ground station' could then use a much more powerful link back to the the broadcast home. The broadcaster would have such links in their trucks already. If this scenario were possible, the talent could also have wireless foldback, again borrowed from the concert world.
DD

Good thinkin'.

[fifthcircle]

CPPI, thanks for the number, I'll drop them a line next week when I get a moment.

I have spoken with the good folks from Audio Specialties (Bexel ASG), and they are working on it. Good thing is that they've already done some stuff like this and they were asking me all the right questions instead of just laughing and throwing their hands up in despair... Our film/video person is also chasing down some microwave technologies. The performance isn't for another year and a half if it happens at all. I'm well aware of the white space issues and I'm not as concerned about them for this show- heck we're talking 2010 and I'm sure they will have been worked out by then. Whitespace is a much greater concern for my shows in May and June that use large wireless rigs.

Trust me, if this one happens, I'll let you good folks know as it will be a spectacle worth seeing. But, as I'm sure you can guess, the dollars involved will be many and in this economy, expensive art isn't always able to get support. When I can say more specifically about the project, I will. Until then, you'll just have to speculate what the nutjob reasoning is for my questions.

--Ben

[Robobo1]

What about mixing on the heli and a mono sat-phone feed back to the "base"? With a standard radio communications setup between base and the heli you could instruct an on-board mixer what needs to be done from the ground, which is fed via satphone. Hopefully you'll have a rehearsal to get certain things in place beforehand. The sat phone may not be high-quality enough, but it'd be damn solid, and given the environment you may not be able to get both a high-quality feed and solid transmission.

There will be a delay, however, so instantaneous cues won't happen.

This is kloogy, I know, but given the circumstances.....

I like the microwave idea.

Wow this is a good one!

[resound]

Curiosity is getting the better of me! Ben, any updates on this?

[fifthcircle]

Looks like the project is half-dead... The big problems were related to the venue, actually... Trying to get multiple helicopters into a parking lot was going to be an issue between the venue, liability, and perhaps even the FAA.

I found a sound company that didn't actually freak out with the tech requirements. Bextel ASG had actually done work like this in the past.

Oh well... If things change, I'll be sure to post the info.

--Ben