Bluegrass/Folk Insrument Tips & Tricks

[will84]

I'm the upright bassist, engineer, and producer-type for a band that considers themselves Americana -- basically all-acoustic bluegrassy folk stuff. Two guitars, the upright bass, 8-string mandolin, finger-style banjo, and a violin (called a "fiddle" 'round these parts).

We cut a record last year that was a learning process for all of us... I was still in engineering school (MediaTech Dallas, at the Dallas Sound Lab) and come from more of a rock background. None of us had ever tried to make a full album. Everything was done with pretty minimal equipment so mixing included a lot of corrective EQ, etc.

Anyway, we're gearing up to make another and, of course, I want everything to be BETTER, especially when it comes to the sound. Since last time I've upgraded my equipment and plan to continue making additions as money allows.

I've figured out various things for myself as far as recording these kinds of instruments go but I'm throwing this out there to see if any of you have experience and advice recording in this arena. Specific "trouble areas" are banjo and upright but tips for any of the instruments are more than welcome.

We're generally tracking one thing at a time (I know, not typical for bluegrass, but we're not really a bluegrass band) at my house -- wood walls and floors with a few gobos. Here's my equipment...

MICS
AKG 414
AKG 451 (2)
AKG D112
R0DE NT5 (2)
Shure SM57 (3)
Sennheiser 421 (2)
EDIT: forgot my Sennheiser 441 (1)
Sterling Audio 66 (tube LDC)
Sterling Audio ST79A (multi-pattern LDC)
UPDATE: BeyerDynamic M160 (ribbon mic)

HARDWARE
UPDATE: API 512C (4)
Purple Audio Biz MK Preamp (2)
UA 2-1176 compressor
Orban 642b EQ (2, blackface model)
Orban 622b EQ

-> Apogee AD-16X
-> lightpipe
-> M-Audio 1814
-> Pro Tools M-Audio
-> MacBook Pro

Any tips, tricks, or stories will be much appreciated. Thanks!

[Jimbo]

> Specific "trouble areas" are banjo and upright...

How have you recorded the banjo previously, and what were the problems?

[mark.james]

thumbsup bump!

I'm recording an 'americana' project this weekend... any tips for:

banjo
ukelele
mandolin
washboard

[will84]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

How have you recorded the banjo previously, and what were the problems?

My ideal banjo tone has a decent amount of mid-range punch, being that it's finger/pluck-style, along with some metallic sheen on the hi mids/hi freqs. Typically I use two close mics: a cardioid LDC on the body near his fingers and aimed at the "head" of the snare-drum body and a cardioid SDC where the neck meets the body. The SDC in this position usually requires more gain than the LDC, in my experience.

I didn't have the option of tracking with processing at the time, so once I got to mixing I'd typically HPF both -- LDC to something like 150-175, SDC to circa 500 -- and send them to abus, adjusting the individual tracks to general taste before compressing and EQing the bus itself.

Typically, I found that I had to do a considerable of corrective EQing to get close to what I wanted and I still never felt I had quite enough slap, even when I walked the HPFs down to nil.

I haven't gotten a chance yet to track banjo with my 512s, which I understand to be considered punchy pres by many. They may help. Mics I plan on trying first are an AKG 414 and an AKG 451. I've considered trying a SM57 on the body as opposed to an LDC, just to experiment.

[will84]

Originally Posted by mark.james

thumbsup bump!

I'm recording an 'americana' project this weekend... any tips for:

banjo
ukelele
mandolin
washboard

My experience with mando is that a small diaphraghm condenser aimed at where the player is picking usually get the job done well enough but that -- at least with the one I've tracked -- the track actually needs a little HF shelving down because it's a little too bright, along with an HPF at least up to 200 Hz.

I read something where an engineer used a stereo pair of SDCs and had both capsules pointing at a 90 degree angle not to pick up L-R but rather the high and low strings for more chop. But in my experience with two 451s I didn't get much out of this. I'm planning on trying a 451 my usual way with a 414 in figure-8 for a M-S image in case I want it in stereo.

[Jimbo]

OK, I think I understand your problem. I've been playing banjo for a while and I've had these problems a few times. Some things to keep in mind:
Sounds emanate from two places on a resonator banjo. The direct pluck (punch) sound comes from the head at the bridge location. The resonant sound is developed in the resonator (duh!) and emanates from the flanges on the sides of the banjo. In a sense, the banjo comes with its own reverb chamber. My goal, when tracking, is to balance the direct sound with the resonant sound. Banjo tracks with too much resonance just disappear in the mix -- Poof! -- even though they sound great by themselves.

I have also found that condenser mics tend to pickup too much of that resonant tone. Again, this depends on the banjo; my (prewar Gibson type) banjo has loads of resonance. Stelling banjos have a higher punch to resonance ratio.

edit: I think Pete Wernick uses a 414, so wtf do I know.

I have found that the Beyerdynamic M201 slams on prewar-type banjos, and I would imagine that your 421 might also work pretty well. If not, try the 57. I like to put the M201 about six/eight inches off the head in between the bridge and the neck.

I'm sure that many get great results with both condensers and ribbons, but I haven't found that sweet spot yet. It could be that the sweet spot is in the mid/far field with these mics, but I rarely have that option. Then again, I'm no pro.

Another option that I've used is an M201 and a SDC in x/y with the SDC pointing toward the neck, and the M201 aimed at the head. The SDC will do a great job of picking up the slides, hammers, and "neck tone" while the M201 grabs the punch of the head. Then, simply blend to taste.

So, if you find condensers are not working for you, try either of your dynamic mics, and remember to balance the tone between the resonant sound and the direct sound.

Good luck, and I hope this helps.

[Chunky But Funky]

I read in an interview that Ricky Skaggs said you need three things for bluegrass: ribbons, tubes and tape. I also recently read somewhere that drums were neckless banjos (that made me laugh). Ribbons and tubes may attenuate the "offending" frequencies in a more pleasing manner and require less eq. That being said, if you like the 57 on the banjo, you may love the 421 in your locker. Just a thought. I think dynamics or ribbons are a better choice on those drums with necks.

Doug

[boojum]

Outside of this unique circumstance (wood walls in the home, etc.) what would normally be appropriate for BG? I see a pair of mics used quite often and would think a well placed MS or XY or Blumlein would be quite nice. What am I missing here?


Thanks

[Chunky But Funky]

Originally Posted by boojum

Outside of this unique circumstance (wood walls in the home, etc.) what would normally be appropriate for BG? I see a pair of mics used quite often and would think a well placed MS or XY or Blumlein would be quite nice. What am I missing here?


Thanks

The OP said that they plan on "generally tracking one thing at a time". Try mixing those together all recorded MS or X-Y and it will likely not be an ideal situation, and quite possibly a nightmare. If they recorded all at once, I would agree! (even if they overdubbed vocals & solos)

Doug

[will84]

Jimbo,

Thanks so much for all that insight. My idea for the band's sound really places emphasis on the mando and banjo so I plan on working those sounds the most, along with the upright.

Do you find that bringing the mic(s) back those 6 to 8 inches brings in much room ambience? I lay down carpet and put up gobos to try and deaden at least the hi frequency reflections -- I'm mostly trying to track very dry sounds except in certain instances -- but it's not exactly a studio-quality space.

I think I'll try the X-Y with a 421 and 451 first, with a 57 just below/beside the 421 for an A/B... monitoring in one-speaker mono, of course.

Also, I forgot to mention that I have a Sennheiser 441, which so far I've only found random uses for in tracking situations of various kinds.

[will84]

Originally Posted by Chunky But Funky

I read in an interview that Ricky Skaggs said you need three things for bluegrass: ribbons, tubes and tape... Ribbons and tubes may attenuate the "offending" frequencies in a more pleasing manner and require less eq. That being said, if you like the 57 on the banjo, you may love the 421 in your locker. Just a thought. I think dynamics or ribbons are a better choice on those drums with necks.

My thoughts too. The guys always joke about me buying a tape machine, and then I remind them they'd have to be a hell of a lot better... PTs edits and easy drop-ins saved half the band's asses last time we tracked tutt I plan on being much more of a stickler for single performance tracks since we're not under near as tight a time constraint this time around.

The only tube anything I have is the Sterling Audio, which was all over last album, although hardly a known go-to mic in audio circles. It lived mostly on upright, rhythm guitar, fiddle, and vocals, and often was a little too forward in the 1k-4k range.

I've wanted a Beyer M160 for some time now -- after reading about Eddie Kramer's use of them on electric guitar -- and probably will pick one up before principal recording begins.

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by will84

Do you find that bringing the mic(s) back those 6 to 8 inches brings in much room ambience? I lay down carpet and put up gobos to try and deaden at least the hi frequency reflections -- I'm mostly trying to track very dry sounds except in certain instances -- but it's not exactly a studio-quality space.

6/8 inches is still REALLY close to the banjo pot, and you should have little room in the signal -- especially if you're padded down. In x/y you will have more room sound, but if you set your gobos correctly you can dry it up nicely...that's what I do.

Please let us (me) know how the 421 and 441 work on the banjo. Thanks.

[will84]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

6/8 inches is still REALLY close to the banjo pot, and you should have little room in the signal -- especially if you're padded down. In x/y you will have more room sound, but if you set your gobos correctly you can dry it up nicely...that's what I do.

Makes sense. 6-8 inches in my head I think is much further away than in actual application.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Please let us (me) know how the 421 and 441 work on the banjo. Thanks.

Will do! I'm excited about getting started as I've really come to appreciate the sound of these instruments, especially banjo.

[BLP]

I'll add my $.02. I was fortunate enough to be part of a great bluegrass/folk/americana recording about a year ago (should be released soon ) and things turned out quite nice. I have to say, after that project, my heart goes to ribbons on banjo, mandolin and fiddle for this style of music.

Banjo/mandolin/fiddle + Coles 4038 + api 512/312 = a beautiful thing!

It's too bad that things can't be live-tracked. It really adds a great vibe for this type of music. Plus, then you get the pseudo-mixed tracks right off!

I would tend to agree that, given you're most likely going to use condenser mics, drying out the room and backing off the instrument might be advisable. That could certainly help to cut down on some the harsh top end that tends to accompany banjo (and occasionally mandolin).

[will84]

Originally Posted by BLP

I have to say, after that project, my heart goes to ribbons on banjo, mandolin and fiddle for this style of music. Banjo/mandolin/fiddle + Coles 4038 + api 512/312 = a beautiful thing!

Considering how useful I've heard they are as overheads, I may have to invest in more than just the M160. At least a 260 as well for M-S...

Originally Posted by BLP

It's too bad that things can't be live-tracked. It really adds a great vibe for this type of music. Plus, then you get the pseudo-mixed tracks right off!

On the last record we often did bass and rhythm guitar at the same time, occasionally one more instrument and oncewith vocals. Never caused any real problems. I may allow this on tracks where feel is the most important aspect, but we're using a click track often for this record and I think they would be the first to admit that they're artists/songwriters before technical musicians.

(The fiddle-player and I are the most involved producer-types, although I take the title and everyone plays a part. Fiddle-man is even more of a technical perfectionist than me when it comes to performances, while I try my best to keep a "big picture" view going. But that's a big part of the reason for the overdubbing and click track approach here.)

I have AltiVerb and in my experience it's pretty good at "placing" lone instruments. Sending most of these dry tracks -- the more rhythmic ones, at least -- to a small studio room-type IR on AVerb -- will hopefully bring a sitting-around-the-performance feel where that's appropriate.

Live-tracking is great, though, and who knows... maybe they'll surprise me and be able to pull off more of it.

[jnorman]

will - i have done several recordings of acoustic groups using individual overdubs and a click track, and while it is possible to get fair results that way, a click track is a sure fire way to suck the life out of an acoustic group like that.

i would suggest that the group try a song or two both ways and compare the results before committing to the recording method. have them play together as a group using relatively close mics on each isntrument (2-4 feet out) plus a stereo pair on the group out at 6-8 feet, and mix to taste. then do the same song with your click track and individual tracking, and mix. have everyone listen to both and discuss before moving forward.

[will84]

Originally Posted by jnorman

i have done several recordings of acoustic groups using individual overdubs and a click track, and while it is possible to get fair results that way, a click track is a sure fire way to suck the life out of an acoustic group like that.

That has been a worry of mine. We used the click/dub method on two songs last album -- one turned out great, the other decent, but of course I'm trying to improve all aspects for the follow-up.

Originally Posted by jnorman

i would suggest that the group try a song or two both ways and compare the results before committing to the recording method. have them play together as a group using relatively close mics on each isntrument (2-4 feet out) plus a stereo pair on the group out at 6-8 feet, and mix to taste. then do the same song with your click track and individual tracking, and mix. have everyone listen to both and discuss before moving forward.

It's not a bad idea, especially on the upbeat numbers where I'm basically trying to deliver a live feel anyway. The slower tunes, which typically have more atmosphere -- or at least a different one -- I'd still be hesitant on.

The main problem in the live-tracking situation would be... who's monitoring while we play? I'm less worried about overs getting through because I'm not behind PTs, and I can monitor and mix before we play. More so about keeping that producer objectivity that comes from having not taken part in a performance. Or, for that matter, fixing problems that arise during tracking before we accidentally capture our best performance with technical crap all over it.

Still, important things to consider... I'm almost positive I'll try both ways. Thanks for that insight!

[boojum]

Originally Posted by Chunky But Funky

The OP said that they plan on "generally tracking one thing at a time". Try mixing those together all recorded MS or X-Y and it will likely not be an ideal situation, and quite possibly a nightmare. If they recorded all at once, I would agree! (even if they overdubbed vocals & solos)

Doug

I got the idea of the OP wanting to solo track everything. Other than his coming from a rock background is there any other reason for this approach over the standard pair? Maybe I phrased the original question too vaguely. I am new at this and want to try to not repeat other folks mistakes, or at least not repeat too many of them.

Many thanks.

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by will84

My experience with mando is that a small diaphraghm condenser aimed at where the player is picking usually get the job done well enough but that -- at least with the one I've tracked -- the track actually needs a little HF shelving down because it's a little too bright, along with an HPF at least up to 200 Hz.

I read something where an engineer used a stereo pair of SDCs and had both capsules pointing at a 90 degree angle not to pick up L-R but rather the high and low strings for more chop. But in my experience with two 451s I didn't get much out of this. I'm planning on trying a 451 my usual way with a 414 in figure-8 for a M-S image in case I want it in stereo.

Try an MXL 603 on the Mando, it is a secret weapon on that instrument and incredibly cheap!

[will84]

Originally Posted by Beyersound

Try an MXL 603 on the Mando, it is a secret weapon on that instrument and incredibly cheap!

I've got a few MXLs lying around that I'm planning on selling soon. One is a MXL604, an SDC, that hasn't gotten much use. I might throw it up if my other mics aren't working, but my new first plan of action on mando is to try a ribbon mic, most likely a Beyer M160.

[BluegrassDan]

Hey Will,

From your list here's what I would start with:

BANJO - Start with the Sennheiser 441. Listen with your ear to what sounds good. You'll notice the fundamental "punch" comes from the resonator openings (flange), the overtones from the head, and some string noise from around the neck. I miked Kenny Ingram once around the upper area between the head, flange and neck. Every banjo and player will vary though. Maybe approach it slightly off-axis from above. You might even want to experiment with some stereo techniques. I don't know that you'll want the API on this one.

BASS - USE THE API to get that punch and attach!!!! Mic all depends of the bass. Try starting with your tube mic out in front of the bridge. Move it side to side and up and down. Probably stay away from the F holes and the lower bout of the instrument. You dont want it to sound MUDDY. You want a strong fundamental, some finger noise, a "pop" when the string is played, a moderately fast decay without muddy overtones and subharmonics. You probably won't like the D112.

GUITAR - Pair of NT5s with API, one at the 12th fret, one over the shoulder pointing at the bridge. No questions about that. Pan them left and right, but you can adjust them in slightly, maybe 60%, maybe less, maybe more. Depends on your liking. But this will give room for the vocals to sit in the middle of your mix.

MANDOLIN - Probably the AKG 451 with a clean type of pre. For safety sake, don't stereo mic it. The mandolin is too small and sounds strange stereo miked. Start around the lower F hole and move between there and the bridge/hand area. You'll find an area that doesnt sound muddy, has some punch, and kinda has a "nose" to it! Watch out for too much pick noise. Another way to approach is from the tailpiece aiming towards the areas I mentioned above.

FIDDLE - Depends on the fiddle, but stay away from the bright mics and API. Try your tube mic and either a clean pre, or a dark slow pre (depending on the instrument). API is too aggressive. Mic it from high above, or from behind the shoulder if sounds too scratchy.

I like to pan the banjo far to the left or right, and the fiddle symmetrically panned the opposite of the banjo. You'll find the guitar when miked the way I mentioned will have the same levels yet sound a little L or R. Whichever it leans towards, place the mandolin on the opposite side, yet almost in the center. Might only be 10%. Bass right down the middle! Vocals in between the guitar image.

Let me know how it turns out!

[will84]

Dan,

Thanks for replying! Sadly we haven't begun the recording process yet. Shold in the next week or two. I have done some experimenting on my own so far. Chopped up your replies in the following quotes just for space and and relevancy.

Originally Posted by BluegrassDan

BANJO - Start with the Sennheiser 441... You might even want to experiment with some stereo techniques... I don't know that you'll want the API on this one.

Any particular reason you'd choose the 441 over the 421? I understand that it's a more expensive mic and often is considered almost condenser-esque in its transient response. In my tests -- and granted, I got my 441 used while my two 421's were bought new -- the only place I usually like it over the 421 was on snare (top head). Although I guess considering you could call banjo basically a snare drum with a neck and strings that might be an endorsement...

I used by admittedly crappy banjo for some tests using the 421 and AKG 451 in an X-Y about 6 inches back (as per a prior reply in this thread), 421 at the resonator and 451 where the neck meets the body, through two 512c's. What I got was a decent sound, although rife with midrange overtones that were highly annoying to me. Out of curiosity, I flipped the polarity on one of the channels and actually got a clear, slightly scooped but bright and punchy snap/fingerstyle sound. How far out of phase the mics where in the first place, if at all, I don't know.

I understand the APIs are considered "colorful", so I can understand the suggestion... unfortunately, my only "good" preamps are 4 x 512cs and 2 x Purple Audio Biz MK's in my Lunchbox (should update my first post to reflect this).

BASS - ...Try starting with your tube mic out in front of the bridge... Probably stay away from the F holes and the lower bout of the instrument... You want a strong fundamental, some finger noise, a "pop" when the string is played, a moderately fast decay without muddy overtones and subharmonics. You probably won't like the D112.

Haha, somehow I figured the D112 wouldn't be mentioned in (m)any suggestions... I used said tube mic on the bass at the body along with an SDC or 421 aimed at the bridge last time to try have more control over the slap-to-depth ratio, as I'm essentially filling the role of kick and snare with pluck-slap-pluck-slap on the downbeats and upbeats. I received numerous overtones that bugged the hell out of me and required plenty of corrective EQ, which may say more about the bass (rental from Brook Mays). I should probably get it set up professionally...

The main challenge for the upright with me is that I'm the one playing and recording. I should train one of the other guys to just hit keypad 3 and spacebar, I guess, but there's still the fact that none of them can really play upright, so having them play while I test out mics will be an interesting experience. A character-building, probably, but I suppose it'll save me some work later on.

I've considered miking the bass in some sort of stereo, either near coincident or M-S, just to give it a tiny bit of realistic positioning, but I suppose this could always open up another can of frequency worms. Does anyone have any particular experience/tips on this?

GUITAR - Pair of NT5s with API, one at the 12th fret, one over the shoulder pointing at the bridge. Pan them left and right, but you can adjust them in slightly, maybe 60%, maybe less, maybe more. ...this will give room for the vocals to sit in the middle of your mix.

Out of curiosity, typically what "part" of the guitar sound is usually coming from the shoulder/bridge mic? I planned on mono micing the guitar only on a few songs that will either have more instruments (overdubs) on them or one or two where I want a "retro" feel, but otherwise was interested in M-S. Your suggestion does make sense though, especially in leaving space for the vox, which are obviously highly important in this kind of music.

MANDOLIN - Probably the AKG 451...

I know it's rarely a simple matter of "use this one, don't use this one" without being there to hear it, but I picked up a new Beyer M160 ribbon mic since my first post. Considering that the mando in questions is not very high quality and to me sounds overbright, would trying the M160 first perhaps be preferable?

FIDDLE - Depends on the fiddle, but stay away from the bright mics and API. Try your tube mic and either a clean pre, or a dark slow pre (depending on the instrument). API is too aggressive. Mic it from high above, or from behind the shoulder if sounds too scratchy.

If bright mics are a problem, the M160 could be a possible choice again (fiddler overdubs his parts). I suppose test the signal on both an API and one of the Purple preamps and see which is more pleasing. Do you have a typical starting place as far as distance between fiddle and mic are concerned? A "ceiling" that you are reluctant to pass? I know my ears are the best tool on this one, just curious again about others experiences, since mine was completely trial by fire.

I like to pan the banjo far to the left or right, and the fiddle symmetrically panned the opposite of the banjo. You'll find the guitar when miked the way I mentioned will have the same levels yet sound a little L or R. Whichever it leans towards, place the mandolin on the opposite side, yet almost in the center. Might only be 10%. Bass right down the middle! Vocals in between the guitar image.

Sounds pretty similar to my planned approach, although I had original thought to get the violin slightly closer to the middle and the mando further away from the banjo, just to spotlight them a little more. Whatever the song ends up requiring is what's right, I suppose. Seems like a good starting point!

A prior post also convinced me to try tracking live where possible, which for me means the faster, simpler, and/or shorter songs with acoustic guitar against one wall and banjo and mando further up the two walls perpendicular, banjo and mando facing each other so they are in the other's respective null-point. So it's a triangle with gtr as the tip, each about 9 to 10 ft away from the other.

Let me know how it turns out!

Will do. Thanks for all your input!

[jeff4h]

for the banjo use the ribbon around a foot away, you may want to experiment with the distance.

Ive not used the Beyer, I dont know if you have time but Mike Joly mods the aphex ribbons which you can get for a little over $100 and they got better reviews than the coles, I have one and use it on banjo, no eq just sit it up and go.Jacks Hicks records here and loves it, one of the best banjo players in the world.

fiddle, I would use the ribbon again, just place it a few inches over the fiddle, you have to experiment with each instrument.

mandolin, I would try the ribbon or one of the 451,s

guitar, the tow 451,s

bass, Im not sure, maybe the akg 112 or a good ldc condenser,

I would use the api pres, I havent heard the purple but I love the api, you cant go wrong, I wouldnt compress anything if you have automation when you mix. Itll suck the life out of everything if you do. I wouldnt eq anything going down. You have the mics and pres, get the mic in the right place and all you should have to do is maybe cut some lo end. I would put a lot pass filter at around 100 on every trac but the bass, maybe about 30 there. Use the ribbon on the banjo, it wont be a problem anymore

[will84]

Originally Posted by jeff4h

for the banjo use the ribbon around a foot away, you may want to experiment with the distance... fiddle, I would use the ribbon again, just place it a few inches over the fiddle, you have to experiment with each instrument.

Where possible, I plan on at least trying the ribbon on just about everything. While live tracking, that won't be possible, although one of the band members' friend actually makes ribbon microphones at home and gave one to us to use. I haven't seen it yet but if it's any good, free is pretty hard to beat.

mandolin, I would try the ribbon or one of the 451,s

The 451 I'd be hesitant to use on this particular mando just because it's frankly a piece of junk, like a $100-200 mando, with a lot of overhyped hi freqs that I hear. Not that price always means quality, but having recorded it all last album, I'm tempted to ask the mando player borrow one (easier said than done, since he's left-handed) or buy a new one.

guitar, the tow 451,s

I figured I'd try them there depending on the song / part.

bass, Im not sure, maybe the akg 112 or a good ldc condenser

Ones I was planning on trying were the Sterling Audio tube mic, the AKG 414, the Sterling Audio ST79 (multi-pattern LDC) for starters. Auxiliary mics to capture slap or other nuances would be 451, NT5, M160, or even the 421, which has done the trick for me before.

I would use the api pres, I havent heard the purple but I love the api, you cant go wrong

I've really liked them so far, specifically the APIs. I'll experiment, and I may pick up an extra preamp to switch in on my Lunchbox if I find a good deal.

[faramita]

I will not add suggestion to mics and so on, you have plenty.
Just a thought, my good friend Jim Rooney, producer in that musical area ALWAYS tracks everything together. For last 25+ years in Nashville and all over the place.

[will84]

Originally Posted by faramita

Just a thought, my good friend Jim Rooney, producer in that musical area ALWAYS tracks everything together. For last 25+ years in Nashville and all over the place.

Would that we could! A few things stand in the way...

1) Fiddle player is near-OCD about his tracks. Part of my job is to keep that under control, but he all but refuses to do his parts live.
2) I'm the bassist, and though I'd rather play along with them, I even moreso don't want to be away from the equipment while we're tracking, also in part because I'm the producer and feel the need to keep an objective view of the takes.
3) Lack of equipment... not mics so much as good preamps (6).
4) I'd gladly track in a studio where things like good equipment, more tracks, better separation, etc. are available but the band is fairly insular about the stuff -- tracking is a private thing and they aren't willing to spend the money. Don't really have the money to spend anyway...

I'm asking for only one rhythm guitar track on each song, since one doesn't keep time well and usually plays the same part as the other guy anyway. Just a waste of sonic real estate. Any gtr parts that are ornamental or just written later that need to go in can be overdubbed, as they usually won't be all through the song anyway. So that'd be 3 out of the 5 main ingredients represented in live tracking, one of them being -- yes -- an important rhythmic aspect (bass), but they're pretty particular circumstances.

Believe me I'd rather everyone track with some decent seperation, including a bassist... one besides me, so I could sit behind the faders and make sure everything was as good as it can be.

[mixedupsteve]

I have 2 Purple Audios in my lunchbox as well. The good thing about them is you can change the way they sound by adjusting the input VS output gain relationship and cut in or out the 2nd opamp. Play around with it and I think you'll like it.

[BluegrassDan]

Now that I see you have the Beyerdynamic I would agree to try it on mandolin and perhaps banjo. I personally don't like using more than one mic on the bass. Too many phase issues. I like to place the single mic where I get the desired amount of finger noise and lows. Miking close to the fingerboard always sounds strange in the mix to me. It sounds like your listening to the entire band with your ear next to the bass players hand.

I would stay away from Mid Side recording and odd stereo techniques on individual instruments. You could end up with a mess.

If you'd like to hear what some of the techniques I mentioned sound like, listen to my live album "The Gospel Way" on Welcome to DansMusicOnline - Home

[will84]

Dan, thanks again for your insight. A quick question, which will probably show my relative lack of experience...

Originally Posted by BluegrassDan

I would stay away from Mid Side recording and odd stereo techniques on individual instruments. You could end up with a mess.

I've seen this said elsewhere, specifically within this topic. Why is this problematic? I'm imagining something like each instrument existing in a different space and it sounding disjointed as a result, or the individual instruments taking up too much space? Or just potential phasing problems?

If you'd like to hear what some of the techniques I mentioned sound like, listen to my live album "The Gospel Way" on Welcome to DansMusicOnline - Home

Will do. Thanks Dan!

[BluegrassDan]

Lots of phasing problems could occur, you won't have any real control over panning while mixing, and unless your room really sounds good, you're gonna hear it, especially after you keep adding instruments.

I like MS for some things and it's fun to do, but not for this situation. I really like the 441 on most banjos. U87s are nice on banjos too!

More than anything, make your session fun and easy for the performers. It's all about the MUSIC!