Remote Recording Rigs for < $1000 - a beginner's guide

[Corran]

While recording yesterday, I started tallying up my gear and what I would want for just "the essentials" in a remote recording rig. I put a pricepoint of $1000 or less, and it seems to me it could be done and done very well! So anyway, in the spirit of possibly helping some newer folks, I thought of two good < $1000 rigs.

Submit your own, debate them, and maybe some newbies will come along and find a good "starter package" to begin their remote recording journey.


-----------------
RIG #1
A simple, versatile two-channel rig

- Zoom H4 recorder and 2 gigabyte card - $300
- Stereo pair of Oktava 012 mics with cardioid and omni caps - $600
- Cables/Stands - $100
- Total = $1000

Pros: Simple two-channel recording setup can be setup quickly and handle most situations with ORTF or A-B stereo setups. For extra-remote recordings, the built-in mics of the H4 can be used. Can record at full 96/24 as well. The Oktava mics are very good and the H4's preamps/converters are nothing to scoff at.

Cons: Only two channels. The H4 really needs to be plugged in when using phantom-powered mics, so it's not so portable in that situation.
-----------------

-----------------
RIG #2
Ultra-affordable 8-channel rig

- Korg D888 8-track recorder with built-in preamps - $450 used
- Two Oktava MK-219 LDC mics - $150 used
- Two pairs of MXL 603 mics with cardioid and omni caps - $200 used
- SM-57 Dynamic mic - $75 used
- CAD KBM-412 Dynamic mic for bass drum/cab - $25 used
- Cables/Stands - $100 used
- Total = $1000

Pros: Full 8-channel recording setup geared for most situations. Can handle most classical and jazz recording needs as well as small rock bands or acoustic groups.

Cons: Everything is used, so you will need to find all the equipment at the above price (which I am reasonably sure of, as I own all of this equipment). The mics and preamps of the D888 are also decidedly low-end, but they will work. A variation of this rig was my first 8-channel rig. Also, the D-888 only records at 44/16.
-----------------


Alright, there's my two rigs for under $1000. What do you think? And what rigs would you suggest?

[NorseHorse]

I think the cost of the stands and cables will end up sneaking up on you! And I would replace the SM57 with Nady SP-5s.

Great lists.

[Oli_W]

+1 on the Zoom H4

I have similar setups:

- zoom H4 + 2 KM184s: very very pleasing results for classical ensembles, although instruments at the rear sound a lot more distant than those in the front row and there's nothing you can do about it other the move the mics back, which yields a (subjectively) worse direct-indirect ratio.

Such an easy setup. Although I know the octavas would be a MUCH better cost:quality purchase.

- Octopre LE/Fostex D90 with KM184's, TLM193, TF27's, Rode NT4's, NT1 and a few dynamics:
yet to try this out, an expensive combo for 16bit recording and requires a lot more setup time.

I'll post some recordings of both setups when i have them, if anyones interested!

Oli

[Corran]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

I think the cost of the stands and cables will end up sneaking up on you! And I would replace the SM57 with Nady SP-5s.

Great lists.

Very true. Those costs are subject to many things, such as quality vs. price, special deals, and other things. I was lucky, when I first started out I was working for a subsidiary of GC and got 6 nice boom stands for $12 + tax a piece on company discount (normally $30). Cables, well if you can find some used or the cheap chinese makes, you can get a good price. I'm not going to debate the quality though!

Why do you say replace the 57 with the Nady's? I try not to touch the Nady stuff honestly...but I will say, on the low-end side, that the Behringer XM8500 SM58 clone is very good.

Oli, great idea on posting clips! I personally have moved on from these cheaper rigs (my 2-channel rig is the H4 and two Earthworks QTC-1s) but if you've got samples, feel free to post! I'll post something from the H4/Earthworks rig later today. If you are really lucky on ebay you could get this rig for < $1500 but mainly I am thinking of sticking to the sub-$1000 range for anyone interested in some start-up gear.

[Ozpeter]

The D888 does indeed give better results than the price (even new) would lead one to expect. The preamps have been much criticised for the very sharp increase of gain in the last few degrees of the trim knob, which makes them hard to use with low output mics. But with higher output, good quality condensers (eg the Octavas mentioned above or better) the results you get are probably more influenced by mic character and placement than by any obvious preamp inadequacy - IMHO.

It also comes with some "do's and don'ts" in operational terms - its internal operating system very usefully provides for all recordings to be accessible on the whole drive as normal wave files on a USB hard drive (no conversions or copying from one partition to another are required to access the recordings from a DAW). But this means that if you record half a concert, press stop, then record the second half of the same concert into the same "song" (set of files), when you press "stop" at the end of the concert, the D888 will start compiling the recordings into a single set of wave files - and that can take a remarkably long time, such that you may find yourself locked into the hall after everyone else has gone home!

So the rule is that you should never start recording unless you are recording into a new, never-been-used, "song". Even recording and then rewinding back to zero and recording over the top of the first recording can lead to problems with disk errors. Ideally, use a freshly formatted drive for each gig, then offload to your DAW when you get back to base.

In practice, that's really not much of a problem (it takes only about five seconds to create a new song), and if you think of it purely as a set of 8 mic preamps connected to a hard drive, with a 40 bit digital monitoring mixer thrown in for not a lot of money, you'll be pleased with it. (No, the faders are not motorised, but full mixer settings can be saved and recalled). There are two beefy headphone outputs with individual level controls, and individual track outputs if the device is inserted between mics and a live sound board.

The display is tiny but of high enough resolution to provide surprisingly adequate metering. These days it seems to come with an 80GB drive rather than the original 40GB and in the context of live concert recording at 44.1/16 (no option for anything else) that's plenty of space.

[Corran]

Great insights! I didn't expound on the D888's capabilities and certain operational characteristics, but you are right on.

I had no idea they were shipping with 80gig hard drives now - too bad neither of mine had that!

[Shadow_7]

cables and extras add up.

mogami gold 25' - $55 each - $110 plus tax for two
mic stand, stereo bar, boom arm - $50+
Jecklin Disc
Windscreens
Headphone
Adapters

and you still don't have mics or a recorder.

For me at the moment.

Korg MR-1000 - $800-ish used
Avenson STO-2's - $450-ish used
Cables, Stand, Stereo Bar, Windscreens, Adapters - $250-ish new
Sony MDR-V600 - $100-ish new

All comprimises of sorts. STO-2's for their lavalier windscreen size, which are way cheaper. Although not really effective in gail force winds. Or even winds less significant. Although anything A/C vent strength is pretty much covered. Korg MR-1000 because 8x AA's means longer battery life with phantom powered mics. And it's a pretty good recorder with enough storage space for most projects.

Although I'm just starting out myself. By the time I get all of the parts I want, I'll probably be out an SUV or two.

[big country]

Id go with 2 sp1s
6 gml 57s
line mixer
adat
cords and stands and headphones
ada 8000

[heyjas0n]

Hey, hopefully some of you guys are still alive. I'm new to recording and I tried posting a thread since I plan on purchasing a similar setup, I haven't really had any responses:
Rate my Entry Level Small Band Remote Recording Rig - Korg D888?

I was planning on getting a D888 and recording us in a medium sized practice room. I'm guessing mic leakage will be a problem, should I stick to mostly dynamic mics then? All of these mics will be plugged in straight to the D888 except for the vocals which will go through the PA mixer and then the D888.

1 - Vocals #1: Shure SM-58A - already owned
2 - Guitar Amp #1 = SM-57 - already owned
3 - Guitar Amp #2 = SM-57 - $75 used
4 - Bass Amp = Shure SM7 $150 or Sennheser MD421 - $180 used
5 - Snare = SM-57 - $75 used
6 - (Background Vocals: Shure SM-58A - $75 used) / Another drum mic, maybe SM57 under snare?
7 - CAD KBM- 412 Dynamic mic for kick drum - $25 used
8 - MXL 990 to record room or to place in front of drum kit / MXL 991 for drum overheads - already owned

Other options for mics:
- Vocals = Oktava MK-219 LDC - $150 used
- Drum overheads = Two pairs of MXL 603 mics with cardioid and omni caps - $200 used
- Toms, vocals, amps - CAD M179 - $80 used
- Shure SM7 - vocals, kick drum, or bass amp

[Corran]

Hey, glad this thread was of some help to you!

Work the mic positions to get the most isolation. Dynamics help of course. If isolation is a problem, I probably wouldn't get the Oktava 219 (and it pains me to say that). After using it for so many years and comparing it against other mics I realize now that it is more of a wide cardioid and might have way too much bleed.

Other than that it looks like you are on the right track. However before spending more money on a bass cab mic I highly suggest trying out that CAD KBM412 on it. That mic is my "one-trick pony" for bass cab. A few inches from the center of the amp and the bass sound is killer, to me anyway.

I don't have any experience with the M179 but if all the great things I hear about it is true you should pick up a view for general condenser mic duties.

[Kyle S]

I was really looking into the D888 for a while before i ended up getting what i have now. I couldn't find much wrong with the D888 in my research. I remember not really liking how the knobs felt but I probably think too much about little things like that.

[Corran]

I think the D888 is a great machine for what it does. It definitely has it's limitations (44/16 only, so-so preamps), but for the price you pay it's great! I miss mine occasionally.

[hbphotoav]

RODE NT4, factory 5-pin XLRM-> stereo mini, Edirol R09HR, Manfrotto 11' light stand.

Mighty nice for less than $1,000. The NT4 rolls off at 100Hz (-4dB) but in most run-n-gun situations, that's a blessing.

YMMV.

HB

[heyjas0n]

Hey guys, I have a question. This guy thought his D888 he got was just a bad unit until he got another one and started having a lot of trouble with the preamps after he plugged in an SM57 (which is exactly what I plan on doing):
Trim Levels - StudioTrax Forums

I was plan on buying one this weekend... Are the pre-amps on the D888 that bad (I'll primarily be using dynamic mics since I'll be recording live in a small 20' by 20' room)? In the future I'll upgrade the pre-amps but for now I'm hoping to be able to get a decent enough recording that I don't think sounds like crap.

This is what I'm aiming for for mics:
1 - Vocals #1: Sennheiser e935 $85 used
2 - Guitar Amp #1 = Sennheiser e906 $90 / (maybe Sennheser e609 $60?)
3 - Guitar Amp #2 = Sennheiser e906 $90 / (maybe Sennheser e609 $60?)
4 - Bass Amp = CAD KBM-412 $25 / Shure SM7 $150 / Sennheser MD421 - $180 used /
5 - Snare (top) = SM-57 - already owned
6 - (Background Vocals: Shure SM-58A - already owned) / Maybe SM-57 for snare bottom?
7 - CAD KBM-412 Dynamic mic for kick drum - $25 used / Shure Beta 52A - $90 used
8 - MXL 990 to record room or to place in front of drum kit / MXL 991 for drum overheads - already owned

Other options for mics:
- Vocals = Oktava MK-219 LDC - $150 used
- Drum overheads = Two pairs of MXL 603 mics with cardioid and omni caps - $200 used
- CAD M179 $80 used - Toms, vocals, amps
- Shure SM7 $180 used - vocals, kick drum, or bass amp
- Sennheiser e609 $60 used - guitar amps
- Another Shure SM-57 - $75 used - guitar amps

Cables:
- I'm not sure about this one. Should I go for all 25' cables? I'm aiming for bank for buck and I want cables that I can also use for playing live. I don't want to be buying eight 25 foot Mogami gold cables.

Also, how is this for the band's layout and amp positioning in the room?

[Corran]

The "Trim pot" issue is universal with all D888's as well as many digital mixers and even some preamps. I believe the gain is "logarithmic" so the last little bit cranks it a lot.

Honestly, while annoying, it wasn't that big a deal to me.

As for your setup, I don't really do rock much but I am wondering, why do you have the PA setup? If you are just recording don't bother with that. And then maybe overdub the vocals so that you don't have to worry about bleed.

Also something I learned early on from the few rock bands I did - turn your amps way lower than you would otherwise. You'll get less bleed and a better sound.

[heyjas0n]

Originally Posted by Corran

As for your setup, I don't really do rock much but I am wondering, why do you have the PA setup? If you are just recording don't bother with that. And then maybe overdub the vocals so that you don't have to worry about bleed.

Well, what I was trying to do is to record our practices live. I want everyone to be able to hear vocals when we practice live. I also will try overdubbing vocals at home and seeing how that is.

Any advice on cables? For the mics I should get XLR to XLR right? And not XLR to 1/4" .
I'm trying to avoid Mogami and Monster unless I can find some good deals around here used.
I was sorta looking at:
Buy Live Wire XLR Microphone Cable | Microphone Cables | Musician's Friend