Nagra LB mic pre-amps compared to other state of the art mic-pres

[Gaston69]

Hi,

I would like to know what people think of the build in Nagra's LB pre-amp, as I am thinking about reducing equipemt at the moment I carry around quit a lot of stuff (Paintpot, Korg MR-1000 and mics & cables).

Wonder if the Nagra LB would do the job as well as the above mentioned configuration.

Gaston

[Douglas Whates]

I'd be interested to hear people's opinion on this too. Although I'm not sure if the Nagra LB is available yet...?

[David Spearritt]

This is a difficult question to answer Gaston, seeing the unit is not really available mainstream yet. Suffice to say that my Nagra V preamps are of such quality, that they have been chosen for many CD session recordings. I use the A/D at 96kHz. A big part of Nagra's reputation over the years is their preamp quality, they also have a HiFi division making very high-end phono preamps as well. The "know how" is in the company and has been for years.

[PlugHead]

IME, the pre's on the old Nagra T were good enough for us to often use in studio sessions, not just for field use.

I wouldn't compare them to Gordon's or similar, but they sounded very good, low noise, and beefy. thumbsupthumbsup

My .02 c

[John Willett]

The Nagra LB is not out yet - the first batch have not been delivered yet.

I am due one for review as soon as they come into the UK.

I do have the Nagra VI and the LB's mic. pres are supposed to be almost as good - and the Nagra VI has the best mic. pres that Nagra have ever made (according to my mate at Nagra).

They certainly live up to my expectations and I do not plan on using any external pres with my Nagra VI.

[Plush]

A Nagra is a Nagra is a Nagra.

The question need not even be asked.

[Douglas Whates]

Originally Posted by John Willett

The Nagra LB is not out yet - the first batch have not been delivered yet.

I am due one for review as soon as they come into the UK.

I do have the Nagra VI and the LB's mic. pres are supposed to be almost as good - and the Nagra VI has the best mic. pres that Nagra have ever made (according to my mate at Nagra).

They certainly live up to my expectations and I do not plan on using any external pres with my Nagra VI.

Forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere, but is the Nagra's A/D conversion on a par with the likes of LavryBlue? Would there be any benefit to using external preamps and A/D with this unit?

[Stefanizzi]

Originally Posted by John Willett

The Nagra LB is not out yet - the first batch have not been delivered yet.

I am due one for review as soon as they come into the UK.

I do have the Nagra VI and the LB's mic. pres are supposed to be almost as good - and the Nagra VI has the best mic. pres that Nagra have ever made (according to my mate at Nagra).

They certainly live up to my expectations and I do not plan on using any external pres with my Nagra VI.

A Nagra is a Nagra, that's true, and it's true that Nagra makes excellent mic preamps. Nonetheless the preamps on Nagra D-II and Nagra V, and also the overall correlated quality, don't seems to me exactly the same.
Maybe I'm wrong

Regards

[David Spearritt]

The Nagra D-II has slightly better jitter figures than the Nagra V, perhaps this is what you are hearing.

[Plush]

I can report that the mic amps on the Nagra VI are very very good. I feel that they are better than those on the Nagra D and the Nagra V by a noticeable margin.
I have owned and used all the above machines. I did sell my Nagra D.

What I am really stunned by is how good the a/d and d/a converters are on the Nagra VI. They are in every way equivalent to super high end stand alone converters.

I think that Nagra spoiled me with the simple and great mic amps on the Nagra IV-S years ago. Now they have really outdone themselves.

I don't know anything about the Nagra LB.

[Gaston69]

Hello Plush,

Well I cannot imagine that Nagra would design a different mic pre-amp for the Nagra LB however this needs to be confirmed.
By the way you are such a fan of D.A.V. mic pres, are the Nagra pres in the same league?

Gaston

[Plush]

Hello Gaston,

Believe it or not, Nagra Kudelski S.A. (these days Nagravision) offers the customer what they pay for. The mic amps on the more expensive Nagra D were better than the mic amps on their other lesser priced digital machines of the day. The Nagra VI mic amps are better than the ones on the Nagra V and BB. I bet that when we are able to dig into the details of the Nagra LB, we will find that these are not the same ones on the Nagra VI.

That is the way Nagravision does things and I expect that there is a "family" of Nagra mic amps but different ones. Those paying a top premium price receive the best the company offers.

The d.a.v. electronics mic amp is a little more colored than the Nagra mic amps on the NVI. Both good, both used here.

You may also remember that I am a huge fan of the Crookwood Paintpot. We have some of the original versions and they are still one of the top three mic amps in the world. Incredible! I wish that they were more widely adopted.

[John Willett]

Nagra themselves told me (the same person that told Plush about the "Pimp machine") that the LB's mic. pres will be nearly as good and the Nagra VI - IE: I read that as being excellent, but not quite as good.

The LB is about a third of the price of the Nagra VI.

The LB should be here very soon and I have been promised one for review as soon as they are available.

By the way, I agree about the Paintpot - excellent pre.

[Gaston69]

The Paintpot is what I use and like it a lot, wish I had more budget to buy a iPre with more channels for my small multitrack projects.

Gaston

[fifthcircle]

FWIW, when asked the same question at AES, the folks at the Nagra booth said the LB does in fact have a different preamp that while sounding very good is not quite at the same level as the ones on the Nagra VI.

That being said, the LB is a rather sexy looking machine

--Ben

[David Spearritt]

Statements from manufacturers that newer model preamps are "a bit better" than the previous model are marketing statements. They want you to upgrade. They are not going to say they are the same or worse.

I asked Nagra the same question when buying the Nagra V, and was told the preamps are as good as the Nagra D, it was just the jitter figures that weren't quite as good.

The preamps in the Nagra IV S are wonderful. If you make an ordinary recording with any of the full sized Nagras, it won't be the preamps fault.

[Stefanizzi]

Originally Posted by John Willett

Nagra themselves told me (the same person that told Plush about the "Pimp machine") that the LB's mic. pres will be nearly as good and the Nagra VI - IE: I read that as being excellent, but not quite as good.

The LB is about a third of the price of the Nagra VI. [...]

No wonder the new Nagra LB is not in the same league as Nagra VI.
It belongs to Radio products, not Music. Nagra never made a secret of this.
Nagra - Professional Audio

Regards

[meatling]

Originally Posted by John Willett

The LB is about a third of the price of the Nagra VI.

Ergo, in terms of $ per channel they cost about the same, because the Nagra VI has three times as many channels. Ergo, there's no excuse for the LB's preamps to be not as good.

Originally Posted by John Willett

The LB should be here very soon and I have been promised one for review as soon as they are available.

Please do review this item, preferably before X-mas Seriously, I've been toying with the idea to give my wife (amateur singer) either a SD 702 or a Nagra LB, and I don't know what to do...

[Plush]

Originally Posted by meatling

Ergo, in terms of $ per channel they cost about the same, because the Nagra VI has three times as many channels. Ergo, there's no excuse for the LB's preamps to be not as good.



Please do review this item, preferably before X-mas Seriously, I've been toying with the idea to give my wife (amateur singer) either a SD 702 or a Nagra LB, and I don't know what to do...

I bet that the LB will be good but I do not agree that there is no excuse to not have the same mic amps on the LB as on the NVI. It's Swiss, it's expensive---get over it!

Please see my post above. Nagravision S.A. offers the customer what they are willing to pay for. In any case I'm sure that the new machines offered will all sound very good.
I recommend Nagra.

[meatling]

Originally Posted by Plush

get over it!

I do not at all appreciate your lack of politeness and manners, just for the record.

Originally Posted by Plush

Please see my post above.

Yes, of course. I've read all your (cough) "contributions" to this thread, including your admission that you know absolutely nothing about the item I'm asking about.

[nosebleedaudio]

I can not find any specs on this or other Nagra's.
Anyone have FULL specs, just curious how good they really are, Swiss or not...

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio

I can not find any specs on this or other Nagra's.
Anyone have FULL specs, just curious how good they really are, Swiss or not...

NAGRA VI is HERE and you can download the pdf of the Owners Manual from the Support section of the Nagra website.

Nagra LB is HERE.

I hope this helps.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by meatling

Ergo, in terms of $ per channel they cost about the same, because the Nagra VI has three times as many channels. Ergo, there's no excuse for the LB's preamps to be not as good.

Well, the LB *does* have Bluetooth and internal editing features, which the Nagra VI doesn't. They tell me the LB's pre's will be excellent (better than the BB) and almost as good as the Nagra VI.

Originally Posted by meatling

Please do review this item, preferably before X-mas Seriously, I've been toying with the idea to give my wife (amateur singer) either a SD 702 or a Nagra LB, and I don't know what to do...

It is more likely to be the New Year now as it is getting close to Christmas. If it arrives before Christmas I may get a chance to give it a quick listen and post initial thoughts - but it's not enough time to do a proper review I think.

[Plush]

Hello Meatling,

Please accept my apology to you, a new person here. I am sorry that I wrote my response to you in a way that could be interpreted as dissing you. If you search here on Gearslutz, you'll see that
I lament rudeness when I see it on GS and rail against it. I will try to do better with my interactions with new people.

It's true that I have not seen or heard a Nagra LB and that I don't know anything about it because I have not used it.

The mic amps on the Nagra VI are transformer balanced, so I presume that unless the LB has the transformers, that the mic amp is different between the two machines.

I am a Nagra freak and have worked for Stellavox and Kudelski S.A. in years past. The reason I comment as I do is that I know how those at the company think. These days I think they are offering especially innovative products.

[Stefanizzi]

Originally Posted by meatling

[...] I've been toying with the idea to give my wife (amateur singer) [...]

Then a Nagra LB should be adequate.

Regards

[Ozpeter]

Assuming that the preamps in any recent Nagra gear would have a flat frequency response across the audible range, and in the context of acoustic music they would have inaudible noise levels, how would one, in real world situations, observe the differences between the preamps in these models? "A bit better" is a pretty meaningless description! If I recorded some concerts with one model, and some other concerts with another, would I be able to tell which concerts had been recorded with which, and if I couldn't, could anyone? And if nobody could actually tell, wouldn't these differences be of little real interest compared with their other features?

[tsvisser]

Originally Posted by Plush

Hello Meatling,

Please accept my apology to you, a new person here. I am sorry that I wrote my response to you in a way that could be interpreted as dissing you. If you search here on Gearslutz, you'll see that
I lament rudeness when I see it on GS and rail against it. I will try to do better with my interactions with new people.

It's true that I have not seen or heard a Nagra LB and that I don't know anything about it because I have not used it.

The mic amps on the Nagra VI are transformer balanced, so I presume that unless the LB has the transformers, that the mic amp is different between the two machines.

I am a Nagra freak and have worked for Stellavox and Kudelski S.A. in years past. The reason I comment as I do is that I know how those at the company think. These days I think they are offering especially innovative products.

Hey Plush, I seem to recall (perhaps incorrectly) that the preamps have a transformered input when selecting dynamic mic mode... which would seem to indicate that they are transformerless in other modes? Again, this is off the cuff from my memory, can you confirm?

I can't decide whether to get an LB or perhaps a second VI for mixdown / backup / expansion capabilities. The lack of TC on the LB is my major misgivings about the unit, so would make synching a bit difficult for me. I really should have a redundant recorder available to me for work anyways, but of course money well spent is all fine and good... but I do have to justify the expense (like an impending writer's strike affecting work).

I totally agree on the value sentiments of the VI. At first look, it seems like an expensive product, but when you add up the value of all the parts, it actually is a stunningly good deal from a company who traditionally had very expensive stuff. If your looking for all high end components, the VI is downright cheap. Value of the LB?... remains to be seen.

[Plush]

Right on!

Yes TS Visser is right. The transformer in the mic amp in the NVI is activated only when using a dynamic mic.

For Oz---indeed your questions are relevant. Differences in mic amps in Nagra?? Definite differences are heard! Discrete mic amp in Nagra IV-S is different from the ND and NV is different from the NVI and others. Can one tell the difference? An absolute Nagrist can tell the difference. Can a mere mortal tell the difference? Only when listening on some iPod earbuds!

[tsvisser]

Does anyone know if the LB's analog output is a direct analog path from the preamps, or if it is post A/D, DSP, and DA stages?

[asciidv]

In the U.K. the first batch of LB's is being delivered to customers right at this moment. I would imagine that John Willets is fingering the beautifully crafted front panel at this moment. As has been pointed out before this recorder has features specifically designed for radio reporters, but I am quite sure it will satisfy all expectations as a location recorder.