Wynton Marsalis shreds!

[PlugHead]

OMG - this is really done well...

[ektia]

Originally Posted by PlugHead

OMG - this is really done well...

No, it's not. Wynton Marsalis' conservatism has done more to kill jazz than anything. His lionization of Armstrong and Ellington, at the expense of more forward-looking icons, such as Ornette Coleman, is just pathetic. And, as this video demonstates, he's a mediocre improviser, at best.

[henryrobinett]

Oh no! That was bad!! Trouble is, it almost sounds too hip! I loved it. Thanks!

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by PlugHead

OMG - this is really done well...

Originally Posted by ektia

No, it's not. Wynton Marsalis' conservatism has done more to kill jazz than anything. His lionization of Armstrong and Ellington, at the expense of more forward-looking icons, such as Ornette Coleman, is just pathetic. And, as this video demonstates, he's a mediocre improviser, at best.

OMG. Should I spill the beans now??

[Barry Lird]

Originally Posted by PlugHead

OMG - this is really done well...

Originally Posted by ektia

No, it's not. Wynton Marsalis' conservatism has done more to kill jazz than anything. His lionization of Armstrong and Ellington, at the expense of more forward-looking icons, such as Ornette Coleman, is just pathetic. And, as this video demonstates, he's a mediocre improviser, at best.

+1. Could not agree more. Wynton is an a****le and one of the more overrated musicians of our time.

[Everyman]

Does nobody else realize that this is a fake? Just like all the other "<insert name here> shreds" videos that used to be on YouTube? The only difference is that this one is done well enough to be convincing for the first few seconds, because all the others got yanked off. It'll take people awhile to realize this is one of them, I guess...e.

But seriously, who honestly thinks Wynton Marsalis could play as bad as that video indicates? On national TV, no less? Get real...

Here's the real video:

YouTube - Wynton Marsalis on Letterman

[piano]

Jesus that is a funny video. LMAO

Just horrendous.....

Ok now I'll watch the real video.

[bcgood]

Lmao!

[piano]

Someone must have it out for Marallis --- because the music on the fake was fairly well synced.

[audiovisceral]

Originally Posted by Everyman

Here's the real video:

YouTube - Wynton Marsalis on Letterman

re: the real vid,

is it just me or does that guy have some straaaange syncopation? for much of it, it's like him and the band are two completely separate entities. very odd. i don't get it.

great band though.

[probe toolz]

ooo yeah that was pretty bad.

[Jaques Beraques]

I love it!

[henryrobinett]

I so funny when guys get caught and fooled by these things! People get all indignant. LOL.

I think you guys are over reacting about Wynton. Yeah he is Wynton and he's not my favorite jazz trumpeter, by a long shot, but the guy can play. I don't quite understand the hostility. I mean it's not White Stripes! If you want to get hostile take it out on their drummer.

[rectifier]

Originally Posted by PlugHead

OMG - this is really done well...

Originally Posted by ektia

No, it's not. Wynton Marsalis' conservatism has done more to kill jazz than anything. His lionization of Armstrong and Ellington, at the expense of more forward-looking icons, such as Ornette Coleman, is just pathetic. And, as this video demonstates, he's a mediocre improviser, at best.

*lets out a long, drawn out sigh...*

[henryrobinett]

[blim]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Yeah he is Wynton and he's not my favorite jazz trumpeter, by a long shot, but the guy can play. I don't quite understand the hostility.

He's a competent, yet unadventurous and reactionary, musician.

The main problem if I have with him has more to do with the wool he pulled over the eyes of Ken Burns during the PBS "Jazz" documentary series. Burns, who admitted he knew next to nothing about jazz, basically turned over the reins to Marsalis. What we saw was "Jazz, According to Wynton," i.e., 80 percent focus on the least interesting part of the genre's history (pre-1940), about 15 percent on its most interesting part (1940-1965), and then basically nothing after that. (Didn't even mention the most gifted pianist of the last forty years -- Keith Jarrett.)

[dubaifox]

Originally Posted by blim

80 percent focus on the least interesting part of the genre's history (pre-1940), about 15 percent on its most interesting part (1940-1965), and then basically nothing after that. (Didn't even mention the most gifted pianist of the last forty years -- Keith Jarrett.)

I couldn't agree with this any less.

The beginnings and origins of anything, are the most fascinating.

Nothing after 70's. Uhmmmmm...I wonder why.

[Umlaaat]

actually, that was pretty good.. wynton has damn good control.. what are you expecting, coltrane on the letterman show?

for a dude who can only let so much thru (dir lincoln center, a bridge btw the old and rich and jazz) hes not doing too shabby.. u know he pulls $1m JUST to lead lincoln center, not incl the worldwide gigs he gets...

last 12 bars of that song has some pretty innaresting chords..

[audiovisceral]

Originally Posted by Umlaaat

actually, that was pretty good.. wynton has damn good control.. what are you expecting, coltrane on the letterman show?

YouTube - Miles davis et John Coltrane - So what

i don't know much about jazz so correct me if i'm dead wrong, but imo, marsalis sounds like he's mostly trying to channel coltrane, but that seems to be a dangerous thing to attempt. to me, coltrane comes off to me as a kind of wild player. he seems tonally and rhythmically willing to separate himself from everything else going on at the moment. cool when it works (ie. in the link with miles right above), just wacky and dissonant when it doesn't..

i think i prefer guys like miles who play it safe and stick to the song. it can be less 'experimental' but it's more natural and listenable to me. brings out the underlying music instead of fighting it. i would have loved to hear miles over wynton's backup song. the melody and vibe would have been awesome i'm sure. but maybe that goes without saying. dunno.

[bcgood]

I definitely prefer Miles.

Quality over quantity, that's not accidental...

[blaugruen7]

just to complete this fun thread the original version

[bcgood]

Someone already posted a link to that.

[blaugruen7]

very well.
i had to test the youtube embedding feature the first time.

[PlugHead]

The funny thing is, the guy who noodled on trumpet for this is obviously a good player, but in all honesty - I kinda dig this MORE than anything I ever heard Wynton play, real or imagined!!!

I hope folks do realize this is a sham - just watch the strings - and those lines - WOW...

The labour involved hacking this to sync Wynton is nothing short of stellar - hats off to the dude!

[chris carter]

That's quite honestly the best fake I've ever seen. Yes, the trumpet player who did the fakery does seem like he/she is actually pretty good. I'm a trumpet player and I must admit I'm impressed with how good the fake is. The only reason I figured it out in less than 5 seconds is because the tone was way off.

I can't for the live of me understand why anyone would be against the guy. He did an awful lot to rehabilitate jazz music and bring back some mainstream commercial success that benifetted a lot of other jazz musicians trying to make a living. The guy is insanely talented. No, he's not Miles Davis, but who is? That's like not liking a basketball player because they aren't Michael Jordan.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by blim

He's a competent, yet unadventurous and reactionary, musician.

The main problem if I have with him has more to do with the wool he pulled over the eyes of Ken Burns during the PBS "Jazz" documentary series. Burns, who admitted he knew next to nothing about jazz, basically turned over the reins to Marsalis. What we saw was "Jazz, According to Wynton," i.e., 80 percent focus on the least interesting part of the genre's history (pre-1940), about 15 percent on its most interesting part (1940-1965), and then basically nothing after that. (Didn't even mention the most gifted pianist of the last forty years -- Keith Jarrett.)

Well we just disagree on a lot of what you wrote. I actually think the beginnings of jazz are some of the MOST interesting. I love all that history. And except for being a bit long in the toot on Armstrong and leaving out some very important figures like Mingus, Jarrett, Corea, Dolphy, etc, I think the Ken Burns documentary is remarkable. There isn't anything else even close to it, in terms of a serous video documentary of jazz and it's development.

You just aren't going to please all of the people all of the time.

As a trumpet player Wynton doesn't do a lot for me, but he can PLAY. I prefer Hubbard and Brownie. Wynton has reminded me of all the history that is jazz. That jazz isn't necessarily ONLY about innovation. Only a few people innovate anyway. It can also be about cultivating what you have. He's only one guy with an opinion. I don't give him that much power, you know?

Jarrett, to me, is important, but not the most important. His solo piano concerts are can be astounding, especially that he has the audacity to do it. That he's been able to hold on to his sense of wonder and naivete about creating at the piano is beautiful. But he's not, to me, the MOST important figure to play jazz piano in the last 40 years.

It's all about opinion. Anyone is welcome to them.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by chris carter

I can't for the live of me understand why anyone would be against the guy. He did an awful lot to rehabilitate jazz music and bring back some mainstream commercial success that benifetted a lot of other jazz musicians trying to make a living. The guy is insanely talented. No, he's not Miles Davis, but who is? That's like not liking a basketball player because they aren't Michael Jordan.

[PlugHead]

Originally Posted by chris carter

I can't for the live of me understand why anyone would be against the guy. He did an awful lot to rehabilitate jazz music and bring back some mainstream commercial success that benifetted a lot of other jazz musicians trying to make a living. The guy is insanely talented. No, he's not Miles Davis, but who is? That's like not liking a basketball player because they aren't Michael Jordan.

BTW - "I" have nothing against Wynton, and I think he is an incredibly talented player.

However, that has no bearing on whether me or anyone else 'likes' his music, or his solos. I think he is a phenomenal talent, but IMO, he is SOOO mainstream, he does a disservice to jazz, which should always be forward thinking and expanding, instead riding the patriotism of it's heritage.

The great thing is, opinions are like bellybuttons - we all have one. Tho you might not agree, I argue your right to voice your thoughts. The only downside with the internet is there are far too many wannabe tuff-guys sporting 'tudes and tend to love stirring the pot.

Just ignore the BS, and focus on keeping it real... thumbsupthumbsup

[fhames]

When asked what he thought about Wynton Marsalis, Miles replied "That boy acts like somebody asked him a question."

[soultrane]

Originally Posted by PlugHead

OMG - this is really done well...

Originally Posted by ektia

No, it's not. Wynton Marsalis' conservatism has done more to kill jazz than anything. His lionization of Armstrong and Ellington, at the expense of more forward-looking icons, such as Ornette Coleman, is just pathetic. And, as this video demonstates, he's a mediocre improviser, at best.

so much wrong with this.

first, jazz, ostensibly, was already "dead" when wynton came on the scene nationally in the mid 80's...; miles, if you recall, had quit playing and when he came back, he was playing tunes like "human nature" and "time after time" and was, technically speaking, a shadow of the man who played "freedom jazz dance" and "nefrititi" etc. etc..

second, it was miles davis himself who blamed the death of jazz SQUARELY on ornette coleman, don cherry, eric dolphy, and the free jazz movement of the late 60's which turned off many listeners right at the time rock was making major inroads.

third, its hard to imagine ANYONE more forward looking than armstrong and ellington, since they more or less invented jazz from scratch...

if you get into the recordings of the period, and study the "hot fives" and "hot sevens" or the early duke ellington recordings from 1925 etc. w. bubber miley, and compare them to the general sounds of the day, you realize that what those guys were doing was FAR more offset and radical in the context of the times WITH the added benefit that armstrong, ellington, henderson, etc convinced society as a whole that the way they were playing was the RIGHT way!

this is something that coleman and his followers, great as they were/are, have never been able to do.

i mean, its like saying a history of rock video concentrated too much on elvis and the beatles and not enough on joe satriani.

fourth, the fact that you couldn't tell it WASN'T really wynton playing, and that the guy who spoofed it still made you think it was wynton doing "mediocre" improvising shows that you really don't know what you're talking about.

i love all these "progressive" musicians, like the cats at the new england conservatory, who talk "wynton sucks because of this... wynton sucks because of that" and then, when they are invited to get up and play with him at a master class, they forget the chords to "stella by starlight" and make fools of themselves and start trying to pluck the piano strings or buzz on their horn to compensate.

the guys who made the shredding video are all competent musicians, to be sure, but the cats who make up the lincoln center jazz orchestra are not to be sneezed at.