Donald Harrison's Heroes featuring Billy Cobham & Ron Carter

[Remoteness]

A few weeks back we experienced a most excellent two day, four set live recording session at the Blue Note Jazz Club with Donald Harrison's Heroes featuring Ron Carter and Billy Cobham.

It was a perfect situation in so many ways.

Here are some pictures from the sound check. Kaz took these shots with his camera phone...

[Remoteness]

What about the mics?

Here's a combination of shots from my digital camera and Kaz's camera phone...

[Remoteness]

More pictures by Kaz of the "Bread Mobile" in action out front of the Blue Note Jazz Club, NYC, NY.

[Remoteness]

Here are some pictures I took of the closed circuit video monitor in the mobile unit...

[Remoteness]

Crew competent – Kazutaka Noda, Aaron Krasnick & Jon D’Uva.

In this photo, Kaz and Jon flank Aaron, our new intern in this photo.

[Remoteness]

Any Questions?

[Kent]

Yes. Just one:

You actually get paid for that much fun?

[doorknocker]

Way cool! Seems like Billy Cobham really has toned down his kit, didn't he use 5 bass drums at one point or something?

Please tell us about the drum micing (how do the M160s come into play?)

Is that a KM184 underneath the bass bridge? How is it mounted?

How do these giants approach a soundcheck? Easy to work with? Do they care how the sound is going down?

Andi

[Remoteness]

Can you believe it – I do get paid for my playtime. Getting away with it for three decades.

Yeah, Mr. Cobham only had one bass drum, one snare, six toms, 4 cymbals and one set of hats.

We all used our own mics. FOH and Audio Record didn’t split the mics. The house sound dude wanted to use the same mics he had up during the other nights/sets.

We had a M88 for the bass drum, a TLM103 for the snare, three TLM103s for the toms and a pair of M160s for the overheads. I get my sound with the overheads, and then I blend in the other mics for a little more definition.

That’s a KM140 in the bridge of the upright bass. We used two rubber bands suspended from the bridge.

We had our equipment setup, tested and working before they got there. They approached this sound check promptly and expected nothing less than immediate attention. Ron was very interested in how we should approach his bass. Donald and Billy left it up to us.

Here’s the track list for this date:

01 FOOT -- M88

02 SNARE -- TLM103

03 SR OH < -- M160

04 SL OH > -- M160

05 FLOOR 1 & 2 -- TLM103

06 RACK 3 & 4 -- TLM103

07 RACK 1 & 2 -- TLM103

08 TALK MIC -- SM58

09 BASS -- K/T LBB100 2ND PICK UP INSIDE BASS

10 BASS -- KM140 BRIDGE -- (RUBBER BANDS)

11 BASS -- MD409 HANGING OVER BASS AMP SPEAKER FROM 1ST PICKUP

12 BASS -- M149 NEAR F HOLE (HYPERCARD)

13 SAX -- M149 (CARDIOID)

14 HL < ROOM -- DC96B

15 HC ^ ROOM -- DC96B

16 HR > ROOM -- DC96B

[Ibeez]

What feature of the DC96B's makes them your first choice for use as audience mics? Please elaborate if you don't mind.

[Brad Blackwood]

Man, Billy Cobham - that guy slays me!

What a kewl gig, Steve!

[joaquin]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

We all used our own mics. FOH and Audio Record didn’t split the mics. The house sound dude wanted to use the same mics he had up during the other nights/sets.

Hi. Felicidadez!!
I'd like to know if there's anything that one should keep in mind when placing mics along with the FHO setup...is there enough sweet spot for everybody?...no problems with acoustic shadow at all?...was that 58 talk mic for both, Remoteness and FHO?
If any of my questions are no good....please disregard...Thanks..........Joaquin.

[jazzbutcher]

Dogggone Steve,

That's an awesome freakin' gig...amazing show I bet. Ron Carter kills me.

Can you talk some about your thinking about the bass?? That's a lot of mics. Did you have all these up just to have several choices? Have you listened to the playbacks? Do you have any idea which mics you will actually use and in what proportions?

Can you talk about where you put the room mics?

Are the non Beyer overhead mics in the photo from the FOH guys? Or are they yours?

You used a lot of TLM103's on different drums - why is this your choice here?

Can you talk about your pre-amp choices?



thanks,

-dave

[henryrobinett]

Great! Man. Is Cobham still living in Switzerland? How was the MUSIC? What label was it recorded for? No DI at all to blend, huh? Way too cool.

[Remoteness]

Yeah Ibeez,

Those DC96B sound awesome in that room. I like rectangle diaphragm mics for rectangle shaped rooms...

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Yes Brad, that was a very kewl gig indeed. Billy's drums sounded absolutely perfect. The first set sounded and felt just right. If we only had the first set to work with we still would have a killer record. Having an additional three sets of music to pick from makes our mix process even easier to deal with. There are plenty of great tunes to pick from.

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Well, when we're there to capture a live recording and the recording is priority, I like to place my mics first; Some times we don't get that option so we just deal with it.

When it comes to double mic'ing horns I never place my mic to the right or left of theirs. I try to place it above or below the FOH mic. (See picture in one of the other posts above.) Musicians will almost always favor the live FOH mic they can hear. When we place the mic above or below the FOH mic I get what I need to hear and the FOH gets what they need to hear. I try to keep the two capsules as close to each other as possible. This system works very well for us. If we must double mic, they would not be placed any other way.

The SM58 was just a talk mic when Donald wanted to speak to the audience. We have a communication system for house and truck personnel. We sometimes set up a truck SA (stage announce) feed to the PA so we can talk directly to the band via their monitors. We didn't set that up on this gig.

Oh Joaquin, one more thing all your questions were great... Remember, here at the Remote Possibilities Forum, there are no wrong questions, just wrong answers!

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IMHO, the upright bass never gets enough (backup) options. Even the electric bass seems to get missed. Many folks just use a DI on the electric bass -- I want a DI, a mic on the amp, maybe even an output from their stomp boxes or a direct from their bass rig if applicable. The more options the better. If there isn’t enough inputs to go around, sure let's loose a few but.. Why should you if you got the tracks?

A lot of mics on the upright -- maybe so. Or maybe there wasn't enough mics.

I like to pick and choose or even blend. For me, the more options the better, especially when the band is blasting away. Ron had two pickups. One was for his bass amp and the other was for the "recording." IMO, I didn't like the sound of the "recording" pickup which was placed inside his bass. I DID love the sound of his killer pickup. Since he didn't want us to get that feed I ended up hanging a MD409 over his speaker cabinet. Believe it or not that miked speaker sounded the best! Boy, I wish I had a direct feed from that awesome pickup. The proportions will be addressed during the mix session in a couple of weeks. We start mixing this recording on the 20th of June.

We always place the three room mics left, center and right high up in the air downstage pointing into the audience.

Yes, those additional overhead mics were only for FOH. I usually never place overheads that close to the drums. I like plenty of space between the O/H mics and the kit.

I love TLM103s on toms and snare. They're like SM57s with plenty of level.

API 3124s was my preamp choice patched directly to the multitrack.

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Henry,

I don't know where Cobham is living nowadays. The music was wonderful. Half Note Records is the label we recorded it for. We had a DI for one of Ron's pickups but, I don't think I'm going to use it. I wish I had a DI on his other pickup but, that's how things go I'm afraid.

[joaquin]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

...Remember, here at the Remote Possibilities Forum, there are no wrong questions, just wrong answers!

Steve... YOU ROCK!! Thanks for the answers, good to have you back

Ron Carter is good as hell.

Related to jazz violinist Regina Carter if I'm not mistaken. I performed with her last year Err maybe it's James Carter she's related to....

TLM103s thumbsup Love em.

Don't like the Blue Note very much though.

[Remoteness]

I have worked with all three Carters and didn't know about the possible connection... That proves it -- I don't no much outside my own world!

What don't you like about the Blue Note?

Can't pinpoint it exactly lol. The floorplan...the layout... there's just something about it. I don't know maybe it's just the concerts that I went to that didn't do it for me lol.

I like Iridium... nice little place.

Not into the jazz scene as much as I used to be I guess.

[Remoteness]

Yeah, the floorplan is setup for dining and not sound. It cannot be more than 30 from downstage to the back wall.

That is why I prefer to use the least amount of mics possible. Less is more in that place.

[Remoteness]

So, I just finished mixing Donald Harrison's Heroes yesterday.

Donald Harrison, Jeff Levenson (Producer), Jon D’Uva (ProTools Wizard) and I were at the mix session. Our new intern Aaron Krasnick handled the phones and all the other stuff interns do…

It was truly a pleasure working on this project from the start. The mix was an extension of this happiness. The tunes were solid and the arrangements worked well. The audience was really into the performance and you can hear this in the recording.

I didn’t track with any EQ and I hardly used any during the mix. Bill's drums sounded awesome. I didn't have to touch (no EQ) the toms. They sounded perfect in everyway. I EQ'd the foot, snare and O/Hs but, not much at all. I balanced Ron’s four bass inputs and added some beneficial EQ -- nothing drastic. It was the same for Donald’s sax -- Just a little EQ to sweeten it up.

We did use plenty of compressors and limiters -- various outboard and plug-ins.

Once we tightened up the tracks in “The Box” we outputted the 16 individual tracks to my analog console. We mixed seven tunes plus a radio friendly version in a single 13 hour session. Later today we’re going to edit and assemble the record getting it ready for mastering.

Oh, one more thing -- I originally posted that I used API 3124s but, we actually used True System Precision8s. I wanted to use the APIs but, the Bread Mobile was booked back to back so we ended up using what was spec'd from the gig before Donald's date. It would have taken more time then we had to change over to the APIs. I was really surprised when D'Uva and Aaron reminded me about it during the mix session.

We have a late call today but, I still better get some sleep…

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Great! Man. Is Cobham still living in Switzerland?...

Yes, Donald told me Bill still lives in Switzerland.

[boomed]

So I am curious how the True pres held up to a Neumann TLM103 on drums. One of the reasons I have disregarded the True is the lack of a pad. Did you have to use inline pads for thoses inputs? Also have you ever heard the ATI 8MX2?

[Remoteness]

The P8s held up just fine to the TLM103s. We have build in pads in our patch bay. That's right -- we have installed 40 pads. Ten -30 dB, twenty -20 dB and ten -10 dB pads. So, anytime we need help we just patch them in. No need for any XLR barrels or (for that matter) any lost or XLR barrels at the end of the night. We also have XRMRs in our patchbays.

Yes, I've heard the ATI 8MX2 -- They're great! I own nine ATI pro6 (Paragon channel strips) and I love them very much. They're one of my favorite all in one mic pres. I wish I has 24 (even 48) ATI Pro6s. I keep snatching them up when I see them for sale online.

Eight of the nine ATI Pro6s are in the first rack on the left...

[boomed]

Thanks, and nice rack . I am considering the ATI 8MX2 to replace the 3 Presonus M80s in my rig. Looks like great functionality for a fly pack. I bypassed the P8 (no pads) and Cranesong Spider (due to cost). Anything else I should have a look at?

[Remoteness]

Consider ATI 8MX2, they rock and they don't have pads either.
Grab yourself some inline XLR barrel pads or get one or two of our 20 channel PCB pad boards for your patchbay. You can stuff them to match your needs. Talk about functionality for a patchbay!

Save up for the Crang Song my man, you will not regret it.

Sniff around this forum -- I believe there are threads about the topic of remote mic pres.

[joaquin]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

...We did use plenty of compressors and limiters -- various outboard and plug-ins.

Once we tightened up the tracks in “The Box” we outputted the 16 individual tracks to my analog console. We mixed seven tunes plus a radio friendly version in a single 13 hour session. Later today we’re going to edit and assemble the record getting it ready for mastering.

Hi Steve. Sounds like the CD is going to be Great!!
What did you use the console for...just as a summing device? to what did you send and print the final stereo mixes? what instrument got the most compression? The limiting was for the 2Bus? At what sample Rate did you record this music? Sorry for asking, but...what is a Protools wizard? I mean what's there to know in order to receive the Title?
THanks and Felicidadez!!.........................Joaquin.

[boomed]

I'm sure I would love the Spider, however, I can't pop for 24 channels of it. If I only needed one I would go for it, afterall, my master mixer is a Cooper Sound 208 which cost me $15,500.00 for 8 channels. I suppose I could by one and worry about the other channels later, but I would like to link all 24 channels for monitoring purposes. The ATI's abillity to cue any channel is a plus when you are tracking by headphones. It is also nice to listen off tape without repatching.

[Remoteness]

Hi Joaquin,

The console was used for (some) EQ, aux sends to reverb and of course a summing device. The final stereo mix went through an SSL stereo compressor then to a Crane Song HEDD 192 then back into "The Box."

Well, we had a stereo 1178 for the O/Hs, the six toms were summed & mixed in The Box and was compressed in The Box. We had a Distressor on the bass amp mic and the kick. We had a Summit TLA100A on the sax. If I missed anything I'll try to report back.

The original music was recorded on DTRS, DA78HRs to be exact at a sample rate of 48K.

A ProTools Wizard is a Sorcerer of ProTools and Jon D'Uva gets the credit for that because he rocks That Box!

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Boom - Chica - Boom - Chica - Boom - Boom!

Thanks for all these posts. It's nice to see this forum get some movement...

I wish Dave Hill would consider building a 16 or 24 channel version of the Spider with some extras like digital summing and such.

Hey, buy one and worry about the other channels later.

[Beech]

Thanks to Steve for an absolutely brilliant post. What a wonderful, in depth review of the setup! I for one really appreciate you taking the time to document your experiences, complete with photographic backup.

I've not been to the Blue Note but Billy Cobham is one cool drummer. The album 'Spectrum' is one of my all time favorite drummer albums from that era, followed by Dave Weckyl's 'Synargy' in more recent times.

I had to do a search to find out more about the DC96B mic. For those who didn't know (like me!), it's a Milab.
http://www.milabmic.com/mainFrame.as...94&Title=DC96B

I'd love to know more about your thoughts on these mics. In fact, your choice of mics for the band are so cool.
thumbsup

Love to hear a sample of the mixing when it's done.

Take care,

Daire