smallest possible 24ch mixer for recording

[adroit]

Hello,
I have working, but not complete remote set.
the main goals are: the system has to be small and modular (one person
handling, small car loadable)
it is not hi-end, just good (dedicated for recording lower budget gigs)
and versatile (recording from own set of mics, from splitter, from FOH/MON console outputs etc)
so, i have:
a laptop with 32ch adat interface
6U case with 24channels of 3way splitter
6U case with 24ch of ADAT converters, external disk, switchable patchbay, UPS.
all the necessary multipair cables fit in both cases so no additional storage is needed.

for standalone gigs i take mic stands, mic cables, stagebox etc from our studio but its
a bigger party=bigger transport and crew.

I need smallest possible 24channel mixer (with mic pres), that would work
as preamps for the system, as monitoring device, and level adjusting-PA interfacing device.

I decided to look for mixer because sometimes recording multichannel i have to create
working 2ch mix for different purposes. also the desk can work as small FOH and earn some money. I don't need best preamps for now.

the mixer must have at least insert points from where i can take signal to record (direct outs will be great but it will probably result in bigger device)

I think i saw the one made by Roland once - you could put it on your knees and mix.
I was thinking about mackie vlz (great options/size ratio) but then I need 2 of them and it will be big, heavy and not in one box.

any suggestions (for console or overall setup if you like?)

cheers
Rafal

[Reptil]

this might be what you need. add some 8ch 1ru preamps and a halfnormalled patchbay...

[shaddai]

What about one of those 24 channel Mackie Onyx mixers? Sounds miles better than a VLZ, it'd be one box & they are relatively easy to move by yourself. The direct outs are pre EQ & post gain, so you could get a recording of the direct outs (watch your gains! no compression there!) & still have the inserts, EQ, auxes & faders left to build a live mix. I've recorded with the 16 channel Onyx & it is probably one of the strongest contenders in it's price range. The 16 channel one is rackmountable, the 24 is a small desk.

The only other idea I have would be to see if you can configure a Yamaha DM1000 to do what you want...but if you find one under $2k, let me know, I'll sell a truck & buy 2.

Mackie Onyx 24.4 | Sweetwater.com

Todd

[rwhealey]

How about a Yamaha 01V96?

It only has 16 pres, but that can be expanded via ADAT.

[Jay Kahrs]

If you need a single desk to handle preamps for recording, PA feeds for house and monitors AND multi-channel monitoring from a recorder there's little doubt that you'll need some sort of in-line desk with extensive routing capabilities. At that point you'll be getting into some larger and more costly desks then a Smackie.

Another thing to consider is that trying to do all of those things from a single desk is going to very difficult from the Human perspective. Something will have to be compromised...

Most all of the bigger gigs will have two desks, one for house and one for monitors with one pulling double duty & handling recording. Sometimes (often) there isn't a recording mix from the multi-track... only the ability to monitor what's being sent and the 2-track reference mix comes off a matrix.

FWIW - I've never encountered a mixer of any reasonable size that didn't have insert points...

Budget?

Originally Posted by adroit

I need smallest possible 24channel mixer (with mic pres), that would work
as preamps for the system, as monitoring device, and level adjusting-PA interfacing device.

I decided to look for mixer because sometimes recording multichannel i have to create
working 2ch mix for different purposes. also the desk can work as small FOH and earn some money. I don't need best preamps for now.

[staudio]

The Midas Consoles Venice series is worth a look. It has pretty good pre amps and as much routing as any live job could reasonably ask for. Mid priced and made much better than a Mackie.

[ambiguity]

Originally Posted by rwhealey

How about a Yamaha 01V96?

It only has 16 pres, but that can be expanded via ADAT.

12. Great little board, and you can add extra ADAT i/o as well.

[ghellquist]

From a purely technical point of view you do not need the mixer. It can all be done in the DSP processor inside a good sound card. One example is RME Fireface 800. Add 8 channels of micpres and 16 channels of micpres + AD. This would in total be 4 HU in a rack. Then connect a laptop which will double as recorder for all 24 channels and user interface to the mixer. The RME box allows several independent mixes, for exampel one 2ch mix to PA and another 2ch mix for recording.

To build further on the idea, maybe change the Fireface 800 and instead get three Micstasy preamps. You can then put the preamps on stage and remotely control them. No need for the snake, instead a very thin MADI cable. (It cannot be wrong to dream).

Now, while it is all technically possibly, I cannot really understand how it would be humanly possible. A bit too many things to juggle with at the same time. I have actually seen it done that way, but then it was only about 8 channels to mix to PA and no separate two channel mix.

Gunnar

[adroit]

thanks for replies guys
i didn't mean to do FOH, monitor AND recording at one time,
been there done that,
what i was talking about is that mixer (instead of single pres)
can do foh when not recording and 2nd stereo mix while recording,
so it can do some small jobs part time instead of covering with dirt
there is oldy crappy mixer but in great size, named Roland M-24E,
it can do all those tricks, but it's pres quality and pot durability are questionable.
how much outputs can you guys get from 01V96,
i used it many times for FOh+monitor with adat card and it seems that it is not 24ch out, i would say 22 max.

Jay Kahrs: it would always be great to have third mixer for recording (transformer separated from foh and monitor) but not always possible, in small budget gigs. having 2 desks is ok, doing it all from one desk is possible but dangerous (think twice before touch anything:D

[Gerax]

I've been on that quest too, but I abandoned the idea of a hardware mixer for remote recording since I got the Profire Lightbridge ADAT interface. I now monitor the recorded tracks with Pro Tools or other DAW (when recording more than 18 tracks at once). I too handle all the remote recording duties myself, so I don't want to carry too much stuff around. My setup is now composed by mic pres with AD convertes, the Lightbridge, my Dell laptop, a Mackie HD recorder which gets the same parallel ADAT split from the pres as a backup. 24ch capability in a 12 RU rolling case. Plus, if you want quality pres forget about mid line Smackie or Yamaha desks...they are OK just for monitoring, but I prefer to fill my rack with great pres and monitor via DAW than have a MOR pres a and hardware monitoring...

Just my opinion

L.G.

[warhead]

What about something like 3 of the Studio Projects SP828 units? No EQ etc, but capable of summing / mixing of course. It would take up 3 rack spaces. The preamps are Burr Brown INA217 which is very decent.

SP828 - 8-Channels, 2-Bus Mic Preamp

War

[Mick@itc]

Originally Posted by ghellquist

From a purely technical point of view you do not need the mixer. It can all be done in the DSP processor inside a good sound card. One example is RME Fireface 800. Add 8 channels of micpres and 16 channels of micpres + AD. This would in total be 4 HU in a rack. Then connect a laptop which will double as recorder for all 24 channels and user interface to the mixer. The RME box allows several independent mixes, for exampel one 2ch mix to PA and another 2ch mix for recording.

To build further on the idea, maybe change the Fireface 800 and instead get three Micstasy preamps. You can then put the preamps on stage and remotely control them. No need for the snake, instead a very thin MADI cable. (It cannot be wrong to dream).

Now, while it is all technically possibly, I cannot really understand how it would be humanly possible. A bit too many things to juggle with at the same time. I have actually seen it done that way, but then it was only about 8 channels to mix to PA and no separate two channel mix.

Gunnar

Hi Gunnar.

I'm facinated by the whole madi concept and would love to build a rig around it. I especially like the idea of a small cable pull-out from the van to the stage. I have never seen one in action, do you know anyone here with one? I did look into it a while back and found theRME solution but I am not a big RME converter fan (sounds too brittle for my ears and set-up only) I was wondering if you knew of any Non RME MADI controllable pres?

Thanks
Mick

[Remoteness]

Have you clicked on the search Tag named board console desk?

You will find many more mixer options for your review and consideration...

Believe it or not: Folks - the TAG list really works!!!

[con_ritmo]

smallest possible for both foh and recording?

i'd say the apb dynasonics prorack (the evolution of the crest xr20 which is nice in its own right, just outdated with the apb)

APB-DynaSonics ProRack

you could try a midas venice...but the apb/crest does so much more...

if it was just foh i'd say the 01v96 hands down. but don't try and use its pre's or converters for recording. tutt pretty nasty stuff imho...unless you just want to document a live show for your own personal use...then you can easily interface it with an alesis hd24 or an rme digimax or your laptop adat interface...or something...
for recording only? many choices here...

for both? apb (preferably) or crest.

edit: i see you need 24 channels...so maybe an apb (the upcoming) prodesk instead. or i suppose you COULD just use an 01v96 with 3x8adat preamps (audient, wackie 800r, etc.) analog out to your converters...the onboard adat out to the console. many other configurations possible...
those yamaha digital desks are just great for live duty.

[rufus13]

Metric Halo: 2882+DSP+2d, 2 of them and a Mac Book Pro. Inputs, outputs, mixing, effects. -cheers.

[yrplace]

Originally Posted by Mick@itc

Hi Gunnar.

I'm facinated by the whole madi concept and would love to build a rig around it. I especially like the idea of a small cable pull-out from the van to the stage. I have never seen one in action, do you know anyone here with one? I did look into it a while back and found theRME solution but I am not a big RME converter fan (sounds too brittle for my ears and set-up only) I was wondering if you knew of any Non RME MADI controllable pres?

Thanks
Mick

We use remote controlled Aphex pres onstage that are converted to MADI using the RME 648 and then run a single dual fiber cable carrying all 48 chls to the truck. The converters are in the Aphex 1788a mic pres and the RME box just converts the digital audio to MADI. The other half of the cable carries the remote control for all the preamps.

And we have additional pres and a 2nd fiber cable if we need more than 48 chls at one time.

At a gig two weeks ago we were about 300 feet from the stage and the cable had to go down a rabbit hole, under the stage and basement and up the other side. While we had to wait on the video crew to pull our fiber cable at the load out, it was still way way better than having to pull 300 feet of a 48 chl audio snake in and out of the venue.

MADI is great especially if you don't need more than 64 chls at 48K or 32 chls at 96

And you can also use coax to run MADI signals up to 300 feet.

Mark
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