Short Shotgun Microphones

[cubivore]

hi james! you might wanna check out the RAMPS forum in addition to this place, but i'm sure you'll get plenty of responses. i would recommend the schoeps cmc641, but i'm not sure what your budget is or if you're planning on using it strictly for indoor or outdoor use (or both!). if you can grab the newest B+H catalog there is a good spread with all the shotguns (long and short) with everything side by side with their dimensions listed so you can get a good idea how things compare to each other. i'm in houston too so give me a shout sometime! i don't do any location audio, just post, but if you're looking for more local location guys to chat with let me know and maybe i can put you in touch.

[tsvisser]

I use a Sennheiser MKH 8050 hypercardioid, sometimes with Rycote's new Windshield 10 Kit.

[huub]

The dpa shotgun is quite a bit smaller and lighter , sounds wonderful too..
Audiotechnica make tiny shotguns, cheap too, but i've never heard em..
(sometimes they use em on a gooseneck for awardshows and such) Audio-Technica - Microphones, headphones, wireless microphone systems, noise-cancelling headphones & more : ES933ML MicroLine® Condenser Hanging Microphone-

[Sound Sorcerer]

For interiors the Sennheiser MKH50 & Schoeps CMC-6U pre-amp w/MK41 Capsule are very common on film sets & now the MKH8050 is a new favorite. Other option is the Gefell m-200 w/m21 capsule...


RAMPS: Discussions - rec.arts.movies.production.sound | Google Groups

[tsvisser]

Originally Posted by thebighandster

The 8050 looks really juicy (better price and size), what kind of work have you used it on. I would imagine that its the same brand its similar to the 416? Do they mix well together? I am working on my 1st feature and am just having the hardest time in small rooms. And id do anything to stay away from having to use radio lavs.

MKH 8050 is probably a close sonic match to the MKH 60, which is a bit more "true" than the 416, but all in the same family. I use the 8050 for interiors where reverberant sound might be an issue. I also have used the 8050 for exteriors where the background noise is under control. I bought the short Rycote Windshield Kit 10 for just such purposes.

[John Willett]

The directivity of a shotgun is in direct relationship to the length of the interference tube - so a shorter tube means less directivity.

But the basic capsule of a gun mic. is a super-cardioid capsule - so a good super-cardioid (like the 8050 mentioned above) will be about the same polar pattern as the 416 at low frequencies, it just stays that way all the way up instead of getting more directional as frequency rises.

I hope this helps.

[d1rtynyc]

Another option would be the SANKEN CS-1, but if you can afford it the Schoeps CMC641S is MUCH better for the situation you discribed.

[Sound Sorcerer]

Originally Posted by d1rtynyc

Another option would be the SANKEN CS-1, but if you can afford it the Schoeps CMC641S is MUCH better for the situation you discribed.

Actually I use the CS-1 on a every day basis & I love it... It's fairly good on interiors but must say I prefer the Shenn MKH50 for that...

[zoom]

it is often a good idea not to work with a shotgun in small rooms.

in my experience a super-cardioid is more suitable for that application than a hyper-cardioid microphone.

if you don't know exactly the difference between these directional characteristics, have a look to their typical polar diagrams and compare. (Unfortunately some marketing people from microphone manufacturers doesn't know this difference when they describe a mic in their product information.) a hyper-cardioid has its minimum around 110°/250° which is orientared more to the side (towards 90°) than the minimum of a super-cardioid sensitivity. and probably a good super cardioid is a bit more complex in construction/tuning than a hyper-c.

I just use often a schoeps CMC6/MK41 super-cardioid indoors. it is a 'industry standard' even i'm not a (film)industry worker ;-)

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by zoom

if you don't know exactly the difference between these directional characteristics, have a look to their typical polar diagrams and compare. (Unfortunately some marketing people from microphone manufacturers doesn't know this difference when they describe a mic in their product information.) a hyper-cardioid has its minimum around 110°/250° which is orientared more to the side (towards 90°) than the minimum of a super-cardioid sensitivity. and probably a good super cardioid is a bit more complex in construction/tuning than a hyper-c.

I have often been asked about the difference between super-cardioid and hyper-cardioid microphones, as many people seem to use the two terms as the same thing.

There are, however, important differences between the different types of cottage-loaf microphone patterns.

The pressure-gradient microphone with the best directivity of 4 is dubbed the hyper-cardioid. Its disadvantage, however, is the lack of rejection for sound coming directly from the rear (180º). The rejection here is only 6dB.

The theoretical figures for the various cottage-loaf microphones are:-

Hyper-Cardioid
The hyper-cardioid microphone has it’s angle of maximum rejection at 109.5º.
It is optimised for the maximum directivity coefficient of 4.0.
Rejection at 90º is -12dB
Rejection at 180º is -6dB

Classic Super-Cardioid
The classic super-cardioid microphone has it’s angle of maximum rejection at 125.3º.
It is optimised for the maximum front to rear index and has a directivity coefficient of 3.73.
Rejection at 90º is -8.7dB
Rejection at 180º is -11.6dB

Modern Super-Cardioid (Sennheiser & Neumann, maybe others)
This super-cardioid microphone has it’s angle of maximum rejection at 120º.
It is optimised for equal attenuation at 90º and 180º, it has a directivity coefficient of 3.86.
Rejection at 90º is -9.5dB
Rejection at 180º is also -9.5dB
The attenuation at 90º is equal to the attenuation at 180º (the 180º signal being out-of-phase of course), this means that the attention is concentrated on the sound coming to the front of the microphone.



The disadvantage of the hyper-cardioid is that sounds from the rear can be too high due to the lack of rear attenuation, and the disadvantage of the standard super-cardioid is that its side rejection is not enough.

Please note that these are the theoretical figures which may differ slightly in practice.


(I hope this is useful - I basically copy/pasted it from an info. sheet I made up a few years ago)

[Petrus]

Sanken CS-3e is the all-round darling of video/movie industry at the moment. It is not a normal interference tube mic, but a linear array of 3 capsules. This gives it very consistent directional character and makes it suitable for indoor use also.

I have been using it for some years and have not found a better short shotgun yet.

[Petrus]

Shorter shotguns have smoother directivity patterns, room reflections hitting the side lobes (which usually have odd frequency responses & reversed polarities) blend with the main signal better. In open air the signal which is picked up with the side lobes is usually not related to the main signal and does not cause odd interfence, even if unwanted sounds are picked up. Sanken CS-3e has the most constant directivity across the whole frequency range because of its 3 capsule construction. For that reason it works well in all conditions.