Moving from Post to live sound... advice needed.

[Plofi]

Hi All,

I was hoping someone could help me with some advice on moving into live sound (specifically for theater).

I've worked as both an assistant and junior engineer for the past couple of years in a small post studio working mainly on TV and Radio commercials, but my partner has recently taken a job in Macau with a large multinational theatre company.

As there is abolutely no Post work to speak of in Macau, I've been looking at the only audio jobs available there; namely 'audio operators' for either Cirque de Solai or Dragone. My question is; will my experience in Audio Post Production help me gain employment doing live sound at all, and if not, what are the typical skillsets required for these jobs?

I know that most 'live sound' experience would probably come from years of volunteering, and cable running (much the same as how I got a foot in the door doing post), but at my age, starting all over again is not really an option. Has anyone here had experience doing both Post and live sound? If so, I would love some advice...

Thanks

[Fyla]

Yeah, you have to transform "sound priorities". As live enginer, you have to work really fast - make right decisions on time. I always try to make sound as good as I'm able to stand it "Repair" the worst things in your mix with the highest priority...

[mintytowel]

I do both, not a whole lot of post but studio and live, used to mix alot of live music, now mainly corporate events. You will more than likely soon realize that you are doing things that seem counter intuitave to you. Its a whole different set of rules, kind of like the difference between tennis and ping pong. It looks the same - its a ball and a net, similar painted lines, and something to hit the ball with but really not much alike.

The most importand thing is to learn your frequencies. I've seen even seasoned road guys who mix huge tours be completely baffled when trying to deal with a lavalier mic. They are difficult to get under control if you aren't used to dealing with them. You will run into alot of those in theater, and to get them under control you have to know your freqs, and the gain structure can seem to not make sense especially if you are used to dealing with them recording actors for film not for live.

Like the other guy said, being able to trouble shoot quickly is the key. It helps if you are in the same room everynight to learn the nuances. Something as simple as telling the talent to turn their Blackberry off if they have it in their pocket can save you massive headaches. Wireless mics operate on the same freqs and the interference is a nightmare.

Its not rocket science, just alot of little things like that. If you know all your signal flow and stuff like that, it'll just take you a little time to figure out the little tricks. The biggest problem will be having to deal with the theater egos.

[Plofi]

Thanks for the quick responses... both on some good advice. The 'priorities' factor is a really good way to look at it (makes perfect sense) and yes I may want to do a bit of a frequency refresher as dealing with unpredictable live situations may be a bit less 'predictable' than my stock standard neuman / Drawmer / PT setup at work (to say the least).

My hope is that there are some more junior, or assistance, positions available as I think if I went in as an operator (provided they don't just chuck my CV out for lack of live experience) I'd be just a tad out of my depth.

As for the ego factor, I think my time spent with advertising creatives should stand me in some good-stead there - if only this was a skill I could put on my CV...

Any more advice would be greatly appreciated...

Cheers

[robcap]

I have done mostly post and live sports, but have dabbled with live music - main and monitor mixes.

Someone above mentioned learning your frequencies - absolutely huge! Good monitor guys can hear a f on edge, grab the 4K on the 1/3rd octave and lower it. Learn the f's that appear on a 3rd octave. Of course where that feedback originates from can be a more complicated issue...

If you can somehow find out what gear they are using, you can learn alot about the products you may be using by checking out the companies respective websites and their forums. For example, find out what speaker system: EAW, JBL, etc. What kind of lavs? Sennheiser, Lectrosonics, etc. Mixing consoles? In-ear monitors? Whenever I have walked into a mobile TV truck (a little different than your situation, but a similar idea for research purposes...), I familiarize myself with the facilities and check out any online manuals before showing up. May be a good idea to have done a little research before an interview as well - would show some initiative!

Best of luck!

Roberto

[Simonspain]

generally in theatre the No. 2 sound or 3 in larger venues, will be responsible for backline/radio mics, so you wont be doing any mixing. it is highly unlikely you will go straight in as a mixer without direct experience.

it would be possible to actually do it if you have sound basics and the show is a repetitive night with no changes, but as others have said.. if you run into any problems then you would be in big trouble and you can't tell an audience to hang on a minute. if you fluff more than once in a big theatre situation you would likely be halued into the office.

i think, from my varied experice of live, that you might be better off finding work in a small live venue with bands. not as glamourous but much more scope to learn on the job. thats how i got into live and you learn a lot very quickly with some reading and trial and error, and a bit of feedback is overlooked mostly. you also find that you can pick up tips from the band member themselves simply by asking them how they want things done. that way you learn without saying.. er, how do i do that!

[RScott]

Since doing a little bit of volunteer live sound stuff on the side, it's definitely a big change from post, but they both compliment your skills.

I agree with the post about knowing your gear. You will need to know it inside and out, and what makes it tick (or stop ticking) because there isn't a lot of time to learn on the spot. Of course the elementary stuff like gain staging, feedback assassination, and good EQ practices.

Completely different priorities than post. Post you can polish it till it shines. I had a mentor describe live sound as trying to keep water in a leaky bucket. You just fix little things as you go. As soon as you fix one mic, something needs to be mixed. By the time you mix it, someone else's mic is doing something funky. It's a very fun task when you're "in the zone" and makes the time fly, IMO. Not very fun when things are going wrong. Practice, research and rehearsals are your best friends.

It would be fantastic to get a junior level job learning under someone because that way you can learn the right way and have time to be ready by the time you're mixing. Maybe drop by some productions to see if you can hang out during rehearsals or other non-critical times.

The big problem for all audio stuff... how do you learn without work, how do you get work without experience. Best of luck!