Getting started on recording my piano

[mrhudson]

Good afternoon - I have been getting started on trying to record my Mason & Hamlin BB 7 ft piano in my home, using, for starters, a pair of Earthworks Omni QTC40s running through an Apogee Duet (being monitored through AdamA7s).

I tried four stereo recording positions thus far: (i) spaced pair ~10 ft from the piano, (ii) spaced pair over the shoulder/near ears, (iii) spaced pair inside piano near the foot, and (iv) one mic over treble region and another mic near far end of piano, where mid and bass strings cross. (iii) and (iv) were both about 12 inches off the soundboard/strings.

Upon playback, clearly my room without additional treatment makes 'ambience' recordings infeasible. And, spousal reactions preclude permanent (and expensive) room treatment options. Too much echo and amplification in the room - and I'm not really doing this to record classical/ambient recordings anyway. So, that at least rules out a few options.

And, so, that brings us to close(r) mic'ing. Option (iv) sounded best to me, but there was sigificant damper sound being picked up (in spite of having the trichord felts adjusted & trimmed recently to bring damper sound volume down by at least 50%). I can post examples if anyone is curious (maybe I'm just being too fussy about damper sounds?).

Are there any studio secrets for getting close mic'ing to work without getting as much damper sound? Things like:

(a) some kind of 'blanketing/wall off' device placed inside the piano to subdue/block the damper sounds from radiating the rest of the soundboard/lid? I'm imagining packing blankets fit to a flexible wire frame that could rest on the piano's frame, above the damper region......
(b) use cardiods instead, directing the mics pattern away from the dampers to 'reject' that portion of the sound?
(c) higher placement off the soundboard? Just outside the piano?

Just looking for some more things to try but want to be targeted about it!
Thanks for any suggestions!

[joelpatterson]

I keep having this dream today that tiny, custom sewn pillows, about the size of a big toe, jammed into the mechanisms of the damper pedals and linkage would soften the "thumps" that I identify as damper noise-- when all the moving parts return to zero.

Doesn't there have to be surfaces that come into contact to bring the thing to rest? And couldn't you slide these pillowettes into those places and the result would be cushioning that blunts the sound of the thumping?

For all the times this has bothered me, it's amazing I haven't gone any further than daydreaming about it.

Of course-- pedal control is also an answer-- you have the power to lower and raise and lower the pedal VERY slowly and make this action nearly silent, or course this goes against the grain of how your foot really wants to think of the pedal as the batter to a kick drum.

Those Earthworks might not be the best tool for the job-- they are keenly super accurate. If you wanted to capture all the nuance of the pedal noise, those would be the puppies to employ.

You might be better off with some cheap $60 Chinese condensers. The Earthworks are a great all-in-one pair for piano in a nice hall, standing out about a foot from the fully open lid, because they are so merciless in capturing every little thing. It's a sword that cuts several ways, tho.

[mrhudson]

Thanks for the thoughts - in my case, the "damper" noise is the actual sound of the damper felts hitting and raising off the strings. Like you, I was envisioning a "railing" that would sit across the frame inside the piano and provide a high end attenuation wall, blocking the "swoosh" sound of the damper felts on the strings from passing into the soundboard area of the grand. Half an hour with some pliers and coat hangers to get the frame, then cut/attach some packing blankets, and prop in place.....Probably insane, but, hey, just might work!

I'll post a short clip tonight, also, to see whether the sound ain't all that bad to other ears.....

(Yeah, pedal noise from below isn't irrelevant either----like the idea of little pillows.....or something like that....)

[joelpatterson]

Grand piano mods... I see a whole new field opening up...

[mrhudson]

Here's what I am getting right now with the Earthworks QTC40 matched pair.....
You can certainly hear me shuffling around in the very beginning as I squirm on the bench, but that goes away once I settle in......Nothing profound for the clip, just something simple to test things out with......Any suggestions/reactions?

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[laboitenoire]

Have you futzed around with lid position at all? Might be worth checking out...

Also, I've always liked the way a piano sounds when recorded with a mic underneath. Still get a lot of the sound, but it has a bit of damping effect. Even more noticeable if you have carpet.

[mrhudson]

No, haven't experimented with the lid yet, but that is certainly worth trying! Thanks for the reminder.....

[joelpatterson]

Sounds pretty damn good to me! The only thing missing for me is that the attacks of the notes have a muffly kind of haze around them, does that make any sense? Like instead of the note hitting and it going "zing!" or "bing!" it goes "clumpf!" The lingering aura of the notes, the low end especially, is beautiful, hanging in the air and reverberating. And I see what you mean, the steady tread of the felts, 88 of them I'm guessing, nestling against the strings. Very, very minor issue, but it's one of these things where once you hear it and if you decide it bothers you it's Chinese water torture.

I wonder if all the felts were replaced with sponge rubber... then the contact/pressing in would be, could be a silent affair? Nice weekend project?

[mrhudson]

Yeah, I know what you mean about the attack - for this clip, I was playing very, very softly and might even have been using the soft pedal a bit. The piano falls more in the Steinway sound camp, with less of the zing or bing of a Yamaha, but I'll experiment some more with more aggressive playing and see what gets picked up. Of course, I could move closer to the hammers, but the dampers are their next door neighbour!
I did like how the notes 'hang', as you put it, like a pool of warm water. I wonder whether it will be 'too big' in a mix? Will have to experiment with that.........

I was relieved to hear some damper noise in a Sarah McLaughlin recording (piano/vocal solo version of Possession), but, still - can drive you nuts, yeah. Of course, if this was fully fleshed out, I'd have vocals and other stuff around that would conceal it some more.

Bottom Line/Big picture - for me at home in CT, its something like this (don't think gear would wildly change what I'm capturing..... probably 80% of the way there) OR a nice digital sampler of some kind. Back to designing the pillows.....

[joelpatterson]

I think you're well on your way. And don't forget that it can be the odd, anti-intuitive thing that you just stumble over that can be the secret ingredient, like when you think that mic was plugged in but it was really this one, or the stand had spun wildly out of whack, or some channel configuration was still the old way when you thought you'd changed it. I could be the poster child for these divine, stupid mistakes.

[idylldon]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

And I see what you mean, the steady tread of the felts, 88 of them I'm guessing, nestling against the strings.

Pianos don't have dampers in the high treble section (usually from a few notes before C7 to C8). There's no need because the notes decay so fast anyway.

If you are experiencing too much damper noise, the felt might be old and compacted. If that's not the case, then there are ways to trim them to help alleviate some of the "swishing" sound, but that's best left to a competent tech. Some damper noise it normal, and you will never get rid of it completely.

Cheers,
--
Don

[seanastill89]

Have the dampers checked and if they need it, replaced by a good tech and for a fantastic piano sound, place an ORTF mic configuration (capsules 17 cm apart and facing 110 degrees away from each other) with the null point (directly in the middle of the two mics) facing towards the middle strings. For a less direct and more mono sound, put the mics closer to flat with the ground, tilt down for a more defined stereo image and precise sound but be careful not to tilt down too far as then you will pick up less and less of the high and low strings and more of the middle.

Cheers

Sean