best portable recorder

[Ether Trogg]

Originally Posted by eoats

Sony 50 sounds great, but the handling noise was just too much for me.

Got a DR-07 now & if/when I kill it might just get the Zoom H4n.

I've been looking at the DR-07 or the DR-07mkII for ambient recordings as well (rain, insects, nature, etc) - what is your opinion on their internal microphones? I've been searching for a few weeks but I haven't been able to find much of anything, nor any noise floor specs.

Any thoughts on brands under $200 that work well for ambient recording using built-in microphones? Heard many good things about the DR-100 but is outside of that price range

[Ether Trogg]

Check out the following link:

Portable Recording Solutions - Sound Quality &
Noise Floor Samples
Even though this is a store, they have pretty good reviews. the interesting thing I found is that each recorder has a test sample with internal, external mic (Dynamic / Condenser), and Line Condenser.

I was surprised at how noisy the DR-07's floor is... may have to look elsewhere to get good recordings of rain. Thoughts?

-----------------------
:: Update ::

Found some more information for ambient & wildlife recordings. The Zoom H4n sounds the best but the Zoom H2n is in a better price-range.
Check out Wildlife Sound Recording's assessment of various recorders (and the Zoom H2n here) - They cover all aspects of the recorder from a wildlife / ambient recording standpoint, including sound samples of the internal mics, along with noise floor information, graphs, and samples. A really comprehensive guide, I must say.

[Brackish]

Yeah, that 07 sounds pretty rough. You don't want that.


What about the PCM-M10? Sounds even quieter than the H4n.

And I know a lot of people like the H2 for ambiant recordings.

[Ozpeter]

There's confusion above between the Zoom H2 and the Zoom H2n - totally different recorders.

[Brackish]

Originally Posted by Ozpeter

There's confusion above between the Zoom H2 and the Zoom H2n - totally different recorders.

What are the main differences?

[Ether Trogg]

Originally Posted by Brackish

What are the main differences?

Tons of research and talking to other field recorders and I found some more out:

I don't have the information in front of me for all the differences (see link below to find out more), but I know that the H2 has very hissy preamps for external mikes, along with the line input having the same issue. Many people I've talked to end up using the line in b/c of the preamp noise floor.

Here is some lowdown with the various recorders. I will also mention that the H2 has an advantage on ambient sound but can have some issues with rainfall. Search through freesound.org for zoom H2 , H2n, etc - there are internal only recordings. Also check out the following

Portable Recorders | Sweetwater.com
Compare Portable Recorders Part A
Portable Recorder Sound Samples
The samples include noise floor charts and full-gain examples.
Transom

Avisoft Bioacoustics - Microphone Input Noise Comparision
this one would only be helpful if you're into more exact/numbers based specs. lists Bu measurements and related information on noise tests for each recorder.

Hope this information helps. GS has helped me out of a pickle a few times and I felt it prudent to contribute back to the community.
E.T.

[eoats]

Haven't done any side by side tests, but in using the H4, Sony D-50 & Tascam 01 & 07 I'd say the Tascams are really close to the Zoom with the Sony the best sounding. But at x2.5 costlier & very touchy - handling noise for me means I can't even think of trying to hand hold the Sony.

I wish the Stereo image was wider on the Tascam 07 but still I like having a little portable 'quick-draw' recorder that I can tape onto a car or boat and not live in fear of losing it. Another really great feature is the variable low cut n the Tascams, which I don't recall if the other units had.

Originally Posted by Ether Trogg

I've been looking at the DR-07 or the DR-07mkII for ambient recordings as well (rain, insects, nature, etc) - what is your opinion on their internal microphones? I've been searching for a few weeks but I haven't been able to find much of anything, nor any noise floor specs.

Any thoughts on brands under $200 that work well for ambient recording using built-in microphones? Heard many good things about the DR-100 but is outside of that price range

[Ozpeter]

There's confusion above between the Zoom H2 and the Zoom H2n - totally different recorders.

What are the main differences?

Too many to list. See the Amazon pages perhaps -

Amazon.com: Zoom H2 Handy Portable Stereo Recorder: Musical Instruments

Amazon.com: Zoom H2n Handy Recorder: Musical Instruments

[Marik]

Haven't been watching lately, but are there any new portable inexpensive recorders on the market with S/PDIF inputs?

Best, M

[Rolo 46]

Sound Devices PIX
Who needs more?

[Ozpeter]

Sound Devices PIX
Who needs more?

Well, someone like the OP who is looking for "something small with built in mics that i can have on me all the time to record sound effects and ambiences." The PIX would be possibly be rateable as amongst the worst available devices for that task.

"Best" always has to be qualified by consideration of the task in hand.

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Brackish

What are the main differences?

The most important is probably the tremendous bump in battery life, from 4 hours to 20 (claimed).

The H2n has a bigger brighter screen and a playback speaker.

The H2n has an MS mic array in one direction, an XY-90 array pointing in the other. The H2 had XY-120 and XY-90.

The H2n has a continuously variable mic gain control, while the H2 had a three position HML switch.

In my comparison recordings made with the internal mics are slightly less noisy on the H2n. External mic handling seems very similar as does the line input (it's too sensitive for normal mixers).

First Look at the Zoom H2n | Homebrewed Music

Second Look at the H2n – External Mics and Line In | Homebrewed Music

Fran

[panatrope]

Originally Posted by Marik

Haven't been watching lately, but are there any new portable inexpensive recorders on the market with S/PDIF inputs?

Nup. Not even expensive portable recorders. See

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/6963745-post16.html

So far only the Marantz PMD661 and the yet-to-be-updated MicroTrack II.

[panatrope]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

External mic handling seems very similar as does the line input (it's too sensitive for normal mixers). Fran

My colleague is awaiting a delivery of an (several?) H2n and an objective evaluation might be close at hand.

However, in response to the issue of handling 'line' levels on the H2, I have calibrated my H2 against my SD302 mixer which provides a 'camera' output at a reference level of around -15dBV. I have used the SD302 -> camera out -> H2 line in configuration for some '2nd unit' recording situations.

Normal consumer (RCA) line level is -10dBV. I found that using the record level control via the front panel, with a record level setting of '100', I could easily accommodate output from the SD302, with peaks on the SD302 coming to an indicated +10. I specifically checked at higher levels for waveform clipping and even with the record level set at '70', clipping was not evident before 0dBfs.

For mixer recording, many mixers have a 'record' output on RCAs with an implied level of -10dBV. The H2 would seem to handle this if the mixer is not heavily driven above 'reference' output.

I will be happy to perform similar tests on the H2n as soon as I am given an opportunity ...

[Petrus]

Originally Posted by panatrope

Nup. Not even expensive portable recorders. See

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/6963745-post16.html

So far only the Marantz PMD661 and the yet-to-be-updated MicroTrack II.

My Sound Devices 722 (a portable recorder, you know) takes in SPDIF without any complaints...

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by panatrope

My colleague is awaiting a delivery of an (several?) H2n and an objective evaluation might be close at hand.

However, in response to the issue of handling 'line' levels on the H2, I have calibrated my H2 against my SD302 mixer which provides a 'camera' output at a reference level of around -15dBV. I have used the SD302 -> camera out -> H2 line in configuration for some '2nd unit' recording situations.

Normal consumer (RCA) line level is -10dBV. I found that using the record level control via the front panel, with a record level setting of '100', I could easily accommodate output from the SD302, with peaks on the SD302 coming to an indicated +10. I specifically checked at higher levels for waveform clipping and even with the record level set at '70', clipping was not evident before 0dBfs.

For mixer recording, many mixers have a 'record' output on RCAs with an implied level of -10dBV. The H2 would seem to handle this if the mixer is not heavily driven above 'reference' output.

I will be happy to perform similar tests on the H2n as soon as I am given an opportunity ...

Your experience with the H2 and normal PA mixer tape outs is very different from mine. Perhaps the mixing engineer was running his buss too hot, but I've always run into clipping if I didn't provide some sort of attenuation between the tape outs and the H2 ins.

Fran

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by philper

If you are poor the Zoom H2 is pretty good. Not as hifi as the Sony, but not nearly as expensive or attention-attracting. $200.

Philip Perkins

maybe the h2N
but never the h2

H2 was a big PITA a true POS
crazy 4 mike arrangement in usa
europe had the MS stereo version

useless functions your pc does quicker better easier

no way to delete all the files at once
cant pause and continue without making a new file

documentatin was poor
and the list goes on

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy

maybe the h2N
but never the h2

H2 was a big PITA a true POS
crazy 4 mike arrangement in usa
europe had the MS stereo version

useless functions your pc does quicker better easier

no way to delete all the files at once
cant pause and continue without making a new file

documentatin was poor
and the list goes on

Wow. Didn't care for it, is that what I'm getting?

I used the 4 mic (I don't think the MS actually was ever sold anywhere) for this video

Island Style - `Ukulele and Slack Key Guitar - YouTube

Did a fine job for me. I've used it outdoors with a windscreen, I've hooked it to PA systems via an attenuator, I've probably captured more minutes of music on my H2 than any other recording system I've owned.

Fran

[panatrope]

Originally Posted by Petrus

My Sound Devices 722 (a portable recorder, you know) takes in SPDIF without any complaints...

So does my Nagra V (a portable recorder, you know) ....

But I think we started the conversation here in the pocketable and 3-figure price range (including even, at least for the moment, the Nagra SD).

[panatrope]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

... some sort of attenuation between the tape outs and the H2 ins. Fran

Always a useful thing to carry in one's kitbag. A passive device like the SMPro NanoPatch is cheap, and versatile (with the usual selection of adaptor cables). OK, I admit it is physically bigger than the H2, which somewhat downgrades the elegance of the solution ...

The nominal peak level out of RCAs is just over 0dBV, which is a level that my H2 line-in appeared to handle without clipping. More tests when I get the opportunity.

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

Wow. Didn't care for it, is that what I'm getting?

I used the 4 mic (I don't think the MS actually was ever sold anywhere) for this video

Island Style - `Ukulele and Slack Key Guitar - YouTube

Did a fine job for me. I've used it outdoors with a windscreen, I've hooked it to PA systems via an attenuator, I've probably captured more minutes of music on my H2 than any other recording system I've owned.

Fran

i used it
it works good
but it is a humongous PITA to use

too many crappy features that a pc can do so much easier faster better cheaper better easier

documentation was poor
very important items were missing completely

and that bleeping fake surround 4 mike crap
with midside i might have been sufficiently content to tolerate the PITA aspects

now they lower the price AND switch to m/s

WTF did they release the h2 for ?
to get feedback on amazon and forums about the problems
so they would know what to do to get it right ??

[Brackish]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

I used the 4 mic for this video

Island Style - `Ukulele and Slack Key Guitar - YouTube

Not bad!

[jase12321]

What are the internal speakers like on these?

I use the LS-10 for some quick ideas, but the speakers are really quiet, even when they're turned to the max.

Anyone have anything which has a bit of volume, and at least some clarity?

[zinshu]

Originally Posted by Marik

Haven't been watching lately, but are there any new portable inexpensive recorders on the market with S/PDIF inputs?

Best, M

Actually the Sony D-50 does support SPDIF over Toslink

If you don't need external Mic inputs go with the D-50 for quick point and record situations. It does some very nice Stereo Recordings.

However if you plan to use external Mics and need phantom power etc, you cannot go wrong with the H4n. It offers an insane amount of features for its economical price

[Happy Musicfan]

So ..... which portable recorder has pristine, ultra-clean *line in* quality ? Does one have to spend $1000 to get this ?

[jono]

Originally Posted by Happy Musicfan

So ..... which portable recorder has pristine, ultra-clean *line in* quality ? Does one have to spend $1000 to get this ?

Korg mr1000. Can find em used for 800 or less. I got one for use as a mix-down deck. It captures what's coming off the desk absolutely perfectly. Stunning little box. Haven't tried the pre's. Not the most flexible thing in the world...but great sounding

[imaginaryday]

i have been very happy with my korg mr-1. i do not use the supplied mics as they are not that great. the sound quality is great. can record in mp3, 44.1 to 96 as well as in dsd.