Film Location Sound with Studio Gear????

[pinky]

I was asked to fill in doing location sound for a local production. Its last minute and I told them all I have is studio gear. I've done location sound before and I've never seen anyone use studio gear.

We will have power on the entire set. Its all inside. I have a Pro tools 003r, a mackie onyx 1220 w/FW card, fmr rnp, MPA gold. I will have a decent shotgun mic and a sennheiser lav mic.
were shooting on the RED ONE camera and Ill probably need to run a reference audio line to it. I can get my rig pretty far away from the actual shoot to avoid fan noises.
We won't be moving around a lot

Any particular reasons I wouldn't want to use my PT rig?
Any problems I might run into?

Any thoughts would be appreciated

[Karl_Lohninger]

You should be good with mixer and recorder......unclear what 'decent' shotgun mic' means or 'a Sennheiser lav' ?
Possible problems I see are in 'are you experienced', 'do you have a boom operator who knows what he/she's doing' AND 'how are going to deal with TC'? Red cameras can be somewhat tricky with settings and levels and and and they come in all kinds of 'builds'....! Be prepared that the camera department tends to know nothin' about any kind of audio or TC settings. Do you have a TC slate? How are you jamming camera and audio?

In other words, it's doable but it won't be easy if you're new to this kind of game. AND, it really depends on the kind of production. What are they actually shooting, and, you mention, you're 'filling in'...for who? Are you replacing somebody for some days....? If so, what was the other set-up like? Continuity....?

PS. please leave your MPA gold and your fmr at home.
PPS: the sound mixer on David Lynch's Inland Empire used a protools rig, but then this was shot on miniDV.

good luck, Karl

[Matti]

If you have a laptop Mac buy BOOM Recorder and use your Mackie.
You´ll have to solve the timecode issues ( frame rate etc. ) with pic and post departments and are ready to go with this very basic setup.
Many profesional location mixers use basicly similiar setups as backup while using
dedicated hd recorders like Cantar, Fostex, Sound Devices or Zaxcom as primary recorder. I would recommend you to rent one of those though.
Sure you can use PT also.
Arrange headphones to your boom operator with talkback and ability to listen to the director also.

Matti

[Shadow_7]

Any particular reason it's last minute? Their sound guy had a heart attack? Their sound guy lost all his gear in a fire? Their check bounced and their sound guy took the hint? Just curious, not that it matters since a paying gig is a paying gig. As long as the check clears.

You might inquire about the shoot more. Some people have strange ideals of "indoors". i.e. Will you need a boom arm / boom operator? Will you need to feed your feed to the cams (with your cables)? Does indoor mean there's only a roof, or only walls, i.e. will you need windscreens / waterproofing? Better to be over prepared than to need something you don't have, or need it, but have it back at the shop. Two hour round trip to go get it and such. Or only have your best $10K mic with you for use in the middle of a raging inferno / active war zone.

[pinky]

I'm doing it for free. I don't know what happened to their sound guy other than that he lives too far away and probably isn't getting paid either (maybe) and can't make it for some shoots but will be able to do a few of the remaining weeks and I do the other few.

The first thing I said to the director was concerning continuity. He said he didn't care and that they just needed a replacement last minute whatever it takes.

The location is close to my home, all inside (indoors, no rain)

I'm mostly doing it for experience and told them I don't have the right gear and what not but they don't care. I just wanna make sure I'm gonna at least give them something workable.

[pinky]

its all slate sync no TC
I'm using a sennheiser mkh p48 stereo shotgun mic.

Forgot to add, I have a Waves L2 hardware that I was thinking about using as a limiter. Is that a good idea or should I just bag it? cause I'm pretty sure most of it will be pretty static/even levels.

[Karl_Lohninger]

Alright, it seems to be 'that' kind of shoot. And that is good for you in a way: the director/production don't care about continuity, that means they're rather clueless and all they want is not to spend a single dollar on 'but sound is really important to us, you know'! That gives you the chance to learn how respectively how not to do things - you're going to learn a lot. A great opportunity to play and gather some experience.

Do I understand correctly that you're got a MKH 418-s. You would only need the front signal but the mike only works when feeding both capsules with phantom power. More cables....

Who IS doing the boom work? That's often enough the more difficult, harder, and more important job in getting good sound - especially when your setup is tucked away somewhere in a corner. Try though to find a place where you can have eye contact with your boom operator.

You don't mention what 'kind' of lavalier/wireless system you have? What do you have?

Sync is done with sticks. That's fine. Just make sure the second AC slates correctly, ask him to call out scene and take number loud and clear so that editing actually can sync later.

Regarding hardware: you could set-up your waves l2 hardware (I'm really not familiar with that) to act as safety limiter. The mackie desk doesn't have a limiter built in, right. I personally still prefer to get healthy levels into the system though with digital and 24 bit one can run it a bit safer.

Btw, you're very wrong assuming you're going to deal with static/even levels. Actually you couldn't be wronger - you'll be in for a surprise here. Levels fluctuate wildly.

The first line of defense is the boom operator - a good boom operator automatically moves in closer or backs up depending on the volume of the whispers or shouts and only then comes you , riding levels on your desk in a subtle and measured ways.


Go out and enjoy the shoot. And don't forget to become a pro you not only need to deliver the goods against all odds, but also deliver them in a friendly and 'easy going' way. That'll get you the next job ;-)

Stay cool and never run on the set. Good luck, Karl

PS. re reference audio to the camera - tape a Comtec onto the thing. the less cables the better.

[pinky]

Karl, That is great information. I accidentally said mkh-418s but no "s". Its not the stereo. Also, I will have a boom operator but don't know him yet. As for as static levels, maybe that was a little too dramatic of a word. The last (and only other) shoot I was on had gun shots and we were outside, people were quiet and the yelling a lot. Anyways, the scenes in this one are pretty low key.

Well, I'm off. Gotta be there in 20min. This will be interesting and fun.

Any other tips would be great.

[Matti]

Pinky, it will go OK!

Matti

[soundbarnfool]

Red? Heads up! I've worked on those a couple of times and the audio is set up is different every time...

[pinky]

Originally Posted by soundbarnfool

Red? Heads up! I've worked on those a couple of times and the audio is set up is different every time...

Ya I brought every adapter I could. Plus made sure that they had the RED mini xlr to standard xlr.

[pinky]

Originally Posted by MATTI

Pinky, it will go OK!

Matti

Thanks man, I don't know why I'm so nervous.

[PlugHead]

Originally Posted by pinky

Thanks man, I don't know why I'm so nervous.

there's every reason TO BE NERVOUS.

Film jobs are unforgiving: the last place you want to be is fumbling, and asking 'can we get another one - audio problems on the last take'...

Totally different bag than music recording/production - you are the lowest form of life on set - do your job well, and you might live to work again in that environment.

Not meaning to scare you , buddy - esp with NO PAY one can't set expectations too unrealistically high, but - you'll do great if you meld into the scenery, and provide good quality audio.

good luck!

[pinky]

Well it ended up going great. Thanks for everyone's input. I really want to get a DAT now.

[Sound Sorcerer]

Originally Posted by pinky

Well it ended up going great. Thanks for everyone's input. I really want to get a DAT now.

Skip the DAT & get a Sound Devices 702T or similar...

[Matti]

Dat is a now obsolete format originally intended for consumer market,
stay away if you can

Matti

[pinky]

are there any good forums I can go to read up on all this stuff.

how much is time code used now? how necessary is it to spend that extra 1k for a TC unit?

[Karl_Lohninger]

DAT is very old news. Don't touch it. How much TC is used depends on what kind of shows you are or you want to work on - but if you want to get into this kind of business it's better to have it. So, yes, if you're investing in a new recorder, it should have TC abilities. You'll find out quickly though that building even a modest sound package costs real money. It really depends where you want to go.

Some discussions can be found here:
Discussions - rec.arts.movies.production.sound | Google Groups

good luck, Karl