Some mild confusion about splitter snakes?

[Frenchc]

so I've been reading a lot about different ways to go about using a splitter snake and such and am a little confused when it come to phantom power/transformers/isolated split and all that jazz

if I had a split with a direct going to FOH and they supplied phantom power and then the iso going to my console for recording will i be good in terms of phantom power?

is having an isolated split for this necessary for hum and whatnot?

I've read way too many posts I think and am just flat out confused

Thanks
Chris

[DanDan]

That would work. However, I would prefer the most direct path for recording, the rec preamps supplying the phantom. An isolated split is desirable if the traffos are high quality. With short runs, in an environment with little electrical or RF noise, a passive split is fine.
Best, DD

[Frenchc]

is it true the isolated split won't pass phantom power?

and you are saying that if all power details are sorted out before hand then a completely passive split is ok?

Thanks

[DanDan]

I guess that depends on the design. I reckon some will, some won't. Do you have an actual application in mind here or are you simply curious?
If you have an application, I could probably give you a clear way to go. However I won't be able to satisfy all curious questions. Perhaps you can find a schematic of an actual splitter snake. Such a diagram would be very simple and the various paths easily seen and understood. Passive splits are fine in appropriate situations. e.g. a fixed install. If you are in different locations there will inevitably be issues. That is when isolation transformers come to the rescue. A good traffo or active split system will not be cheap.

Best, DD

[Frenchc]

well I guess I would ideally want the cheapest way for about 16 channels, and would like to rack mount them but not necessary. I looked at the 4 channel splitter rackmounted box on Audiopile.net and (ML)

I guess Im looking at something similar to that, I know those are super cheap so I'm a little skeptical but everyone says decent things about their products. however it says the iso's won't pass phantom power.

whatever I get it won't be used terribly often, I would just like a cheap, decent way to split 16 channels. I don't think I'd be able to afford an active split.

the splitter for me would be used to split stage mics in really small clubs by me between the "FOH" and my recording rig. Most venues in my area only mic vocals, kick, snare and whatever line level things they have so I'd be putting up my own mics for a lot of things if that makes sense?

[DanDan]

Understood. Those little AudioPile units look very decent and incredibly cheap. At that price there is little point in considering a passive option.
I would use the directs to your recording pres and have them provide phantom. This ensures there is no quality loss for the recording. The Iso's can go to FOH and Monitors. These Iso's will prevent hum or other problems (such as another source of Phantom coming back up the line!) Why don't you buy one AudioPile and try it out?
Best, DD

[Frenchc]

cool, I definitely will....Thanks a lot for your help

[Jim vanBergen]

Two minor points:

1) You want the best possible transformers. Jensens, Lundahl, or a similar high quality spec'd xfrmr.

2) If you use the iso side of such a snake, you can't run any ADDITIONAL phantom powered mics without having the FOH console land them and power them. That, my friend, sucks. I like having additional condenser mics for crowd, sometimes extra mics for instruments, etc and I like using extra inputs on the snakes. If you are planning to have bands that fit in 16 channels and running any extra record mics direct to your rig instead of to the split, then it's cool.

Hope these thoughts help!

JvB

[Jungle Jazz]

I've got that EWI splitter, and it's pretty good for what it is. Another one to consider is the ART S8, which gives 8 channels of iso splits in a single rack space, but it only does a two ways split as opposed to the EWI's three way. The price per channel is about the same with either unit.
http://www.artproaudio.com/products....&cat=11&id=137

[nathanvacha]

Just to reiterate, in case it wasn't clear, a transformer does not allow phantom power to pass through, however the direct output passes phantom as usual, so only one mixer is required to supply phantom to all mics.

[Frenchc]

cool cool, thanks for the replies. It does kind of suck to not be able to pass phantom power to additional mics of my own with the iso side but honestly, most of the places Ill be doing these recordings at the sound guy wont know the difference between the direct and isolated feed so Ill probably be able to get away with using the direct feed. Im just looking for a small 16 channel set up for now so I don't think I'll run into too many probably for the time being...if I ever expand then maybe Ill need to figure something else out. Thanks again for your time

I ordered a couple of the EWI splitters so I will be trying them out soon

[Remoteness]

When I design or purchase a splitter / snake more times than not I make sure there are a few tie lines included so I can directly feed my phantom powered mics to my rig even when I must take the isolated feed. Non-isolated tie lines are also handy when you want to feed an SA or return line or COMM or even (yes, I'm serious) SMPTE TC down the snake.

If you don't have any non-isolated lines you could always add an inline 48v supply before the splitter box input.

[yrplace]

Originally Posted by Frenchc

cool cool, thanks for the replies. It does kind of suck to not be able to pass phantom power to additional mics of my own with the iso side but honestly, most of the places Ill be doing these recordings at the sound guy wont know the difference between the direct and isolated feed so Ill probably be able to get away with using the direct feed. Im just looking for a small 16 channel set up for now so I don't think I'll run into too many probably for the time being...if I ever expand then maybe Ill need to figure something else out. Thanks again for your time

I ordered a couple of the EWI splitters so I will be trying them out soon

On our 48 chl two way iso splitter we added additonal xlrs that feed chls 41-48 after the transformers in the splitter (thus direct to our preamps) . This allows us to power the audience mics when plugged into the splitter box. The snakes are 54 chl so we also have 6 additional direct inputs available if needed.

Mark