Beyer MC930 for classical distant miking

[mathieujm]

This mic is often compared with KM84. ok. But all I see is about close or mid-distant miking for overheads, guitar etc.

what I search is a mid-priced cardio (300-500 €/$) (not a MKH8040, CMC64, KM140...) for distant stereo miking.

I red a lot of good things on the MC930 but how does it capture the diffuse sound ? I had some not so good experiences with my current pair (MBHO) because the backward sound is a beat coloured.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
JM

[Jungle Jazz]

I'd like to hear some reports on the MC930 in these uses as well. I'm a big fan of the mic for close use and overheads, but I'm looking into getting more involved with classical recording, and, because I've already got some MC930s and like their sound, I thought I'd give them a try for those applications.

For anyone that is using them for distant classical work, I'd be curious to learn what preamps you are using to drive them.

[d_fu]

I don't actually have MC 930s, but I have the predecessor, MC 803 (which was part of a system with exchangeable capsules). 803 is the cardioid variety.
I've used it as main mic (ORTF-ish), as part of a main mic "Straus packet" setup (omni and cardioid), as stereo spot for choir, etc. Great mic.

I don't doubt the MC 930 will work just as well, and from what I hear and read, it does.


Daniel

[mathieujm]

Thanks d_fu.

It seems that the patern of this mic is more on the supercardio side than cardio. Is it right ?

This should be ok for me if the off-axis response is smooth.

Jungle Jazz, do you own these mics already ? If yes, couldn't you try to record some distant sounds and off-axis sounds and tell us if the recordings are more less natural ?

[corworld]

We used a pair of MC930s last year to record a concert band CD. These were mixed with an MKH800. The warmer high-end of 930 was chosen over the earthworks mics we tried.

[Jungle Jazz]

I do have some MC930s already (I've got four of them). I just moved from coast to coast, so I'm still getting set up in my new locale. I've only used MC930s for close miking in the past, but I'll do some distant miking tests when I can. I plan to test them against Shure KSM141s. Both mics have fairly tight cardioid patterns.

[jnorman]

you might want to head over to the taperssection forum and inquire there - there are many folks there that use the beyers for live work, varying from taping live rock concerts to chamber music.

[bradley]

I've only used mine as drum overheads and on acoustic guitar so far.

Planning to try them out recording choir and organ at the end of the month. Will be using the MC930 pair alongside several Sennheiser MKH series mics.

Looking forward to the results!

[mathieujm]

Originally Posted by bradley

I've only used mine as drum overheads and on acoustic guitar so far.

Planning to try them out recording choir and organ at the end of the month. Will be using the MC930 pair alongside several Sennheiser MKH series mics.

Looking forward to the results!

Me too thumbsup

[MichaelPatrick]

Here's a live piano recording made a few weeks ago with a pair of Beyerdynamic MC930s in ORTF.

The venue is a nice 250 seat recital hall.

You'll hear people moving around before the first bar of this encore, Chopin's Barcarolle in F-sharp major, Op. 60 (1845-46).

[mathieujm]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

Here's a live piano recording made a few weeks ago with a pair of Beyer Dynamic MC930s in ORTF.

The venue is a nice 250 seat recital hall.

You'll hear people moving around before the first bar of this encore, Chopin's Barcarolle in F-sharp major, Op. 60 (1845-46).

Thanks Michael. Great music, but what noisy people (but the ambiance sound is realistic which is good for the mic...)
It's very difficult to judge a mic on a non known piano, but the sound is very full and precise. What was the piano ? it sounds a little like a pianoforte in the high.

I wait for my pair of MC930 next week. Some news soon .

JM

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by mathieujm

Thanks Michael. Great music, but what noisy people (but the ambiance sound is realistic which is good for the mic...)
It's very difficult to judge a mic on a non known piano, but the sound is very full and precise. What was the piano ? it sounds a little like a pianoforte in the high.

I wait for my pair of MC930 next week. Some news soon .

The piano is a 9 foot Steinway.

The stage area, all lacquered wood, absorbs very low frequencies, flatters mids, and reflects audience sounds back into the mics. That's how they caught so much ambiance.

The highs are a reason for liking MC930s as the top end is smooth and present without edginess of any kind. It takes EQ nicely. I like it on strings, winds, you name it.

Here's a recording in the same hall of a clarinet solo. Same mics, ORTF.

[mathieujm]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

The piano is a 9 foot Steinway. .

Isn't there a tuning problem for it ?

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

Here's a recording in the same hall of a clarinet solo. Same mics, ORTF.

Really enjoyed this one. Is the reverb natural ?

JM

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by mathieujm

Isn't there a tuning problem for it ?


Really enjoyed this one. Is the reverb natural ?

JM

The piano was tuned. What do you hear?

The reverb is 90% natural. After a 110ms delay I added a 4.5 second tail just to make the room a little larger.

[mathieujm]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

The piano was tuned. What do you hear?

For example at 1:32 the notes rings in the high, or is it a mp3 artefact ?

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

The reverb is 90% natural. After a 110ms delay I added a 4.5 second tail just to make the room a little larger?

4.5s is very long tail. 1.5 or 2s should be more natural (ok, I don't like long tails ). Don't you have the same great music direct from the MC930 ?

JM

[Jungle Jazz]

Michael,

Thanks for posting those samples. Nice sound. Couple questions. How far out did you place the mics from the piano, and which preamps were you using--Forssell?

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by mathieujm

For example at 1:32 the notes rings in the high, or is it a mp3 artefact ?

Chopin was known for incredible sustains and not every pianist interprets them the same or plays them well. This pianist is a gifted interpreter and performer. They are his doing. His interpretation of Chopin's Twenty-Four Preludes, Op. 28 is like hearing a whole orchestra inside that Steinway.

Originally Posted by mathieujm

4.5s is very long tail. 1.5 or 2s should be more natural (ok, I don't like long tails ). Don't you have the same great music direct from the MC930 ?

Artificial tail in the piano recording is actually very little present, much less than 10%. For recordings in this hall I have a standard post-production setup and some programs require more verb. These got little of it.

Here's another version of that clarinet recording. Piano was in the same room on a different date. It's raw -- just the two Beyer MC930s (ORTF array) with no processing but SRC. I don't have my hands on a raw version of the piano recording right now, but this should give you an idea what the room itself sounds like and what the Beyer's can do with ambiance.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by Jungle Jazz

Michael,

Thanks for posting those samples. Nice sound. Couple questions. How far out did you place the mics from the piano, and which preamps were you using--Forssell?

Mic distance for both recordings was about the same. 7 feet back and 9 feet up. Capsules aimed downward toward the instruments.

For the piano...

Forssell SMP-2, Aurora 8 ADC @ 24/88, AES into Sound Devices 744T recorder.

For the clarinet...

Mics direct into Sound Devices 744T recorder running @ 24/88. I had 10 minutes to set up and recorded 7 live performers in one hour on the same stage.

[Jungle Jazz]

Thanks for that added info.

[MichaelPatrick]

I think these mics are what most people expect when they buy Neumann KM184s, which are articulate but edgy, and they don't take EQ very well.

With these Beyer's and some Schoeps I had no use for my 184s, so I sold them.

[mathieujm]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

With these Beyer's and some Schoeps I had no use for my 184s, so I sold them.

Interesting, how do you compare the MC930 and the Schoeps MK4 ?

PS : I will listen to your raw version this evening and thanks for all these great informations.

JM

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by mathieujm

Interesting, how do you compare the MC930 and the Schoeps MK4?

The MC930 has a meatier sound that presents the body of instruments palpably in the mix. The ambiance is present though not favored. You can hear the wood of the clarinet and the rim of the piano in these clips. This mic doesn't get hard or crunchy on loud and complex sounds, and it has absolutely no condenser edginess. It's very forgiving and takes EQ well, making it easy to mix for good results.

The MK4 has the good qualities of the Beyer but it's more articulate, probably due to faster transients. It grabs a bit more room air and the body of instruments have more 3D aura around them. It doesn't favor body over ambiance like the MC930. The MK4s have a sound -- an elegant musicality that all Schoeps mics are known for.

I'm using the Beyers more frequently now than the Schoeps because they do a great job without putting lots of $ at risk -- I work entirely on location and accidents happen. They're forgiving, faithful to the soul of the sources, and mix easily. They have a musicality of their own that I can't describe, but I hear it even in these clips. Did you notice how coherent the image is even in the MP3s? I used an accurate ORTF (17cm, 110 deg).

[mathieujm]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

I'm using the Beyers more frequently now than the Schoeps because they do a great job without putting lots of $ at risk -- I work entirely on location and accidents happen. They're forgiving, faithful to the soul of the sources, and mix easily. They have a musicality of their own that I can't describe, but I hear it even in these clips. Did you notice how coherent the image is even in the MP3s? I used an accurate ORTF (17cm, 110 deg).

Thanks Michael. It's reassuring for me to know somebody having the MC930 and the MK4 and who use the Beyer without the idea "Oh if I have used my Schoeps, the sound would have been far better !".

Your last clarinet version is magnificent. Here I hear the wood of the clarinet and the discrete natural verb keeps the intimacy of this piece of music and the silence around the music. Very musical even if the piano is a little too much in retreat for me. The imaging is wide but precise. It's the sign of a well controled directivity
I am impatient to receive mine and try them on violin. I never had good results with this difficult instrument.

JM

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by mathieujm

I am impatient to receive mine and try them on violin. I never had good results with this difficult instrument.

I hope you can drop a clip and share your thoughts after trying them!

[mljung]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

Did you notice how coherent the image is even in the MP3s? I used an accurate ORTF (17cm, 110 deg).

Michael - I have the mc930, but so far I haven't used them in accurate ORTF. May I ask you which stereo-bar/clamps you're using?
[Any photos of the setup is most welcome ]

Mads

[mathieujm]

Originally Posted by mljung

Michael - I have the mc930, but so far I haven't used them in accurate ORTF. May I ask you which stereo-bar/clamps you're using?
[Any photos of the setup is most welcome ]

Mads

This one could be used for XY, ORTF etc.
BEYERDYNAMIC MAV 802 - U.K. International Cyberstore

JM

[mljung]

Originally Posted by mathieujm

This one could be used for XY, ORTF etc.
BEYERDYNAMIC MAV 802 - U.K. International Cyberstore

JM

Thanks I know that one. I'm looking for a more flexible type though...

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by mljung

Michael - I have the mc930, but so far I haven't used them in accurate ORTF. May I ask you which stereo-bar/clamps you're using?
[Any photos of the setup is most welcome ]

Mads, I didn't take photos. The bar is just cheap one I bought at Guitar Center locally. Nothing fancy.

[mathieujm]

Originally Posted by mljung

Thanks I know that one. I'm looking for a more flexible type though...

Ok, if you really want to spend 5-600 €/$ (what I spent for my MC930 pair...) on this...
SCHOEPS ums20

You always could have a look here
MicSupply.com

JM

PS : a package is waiting me at home... soon some violin recording

[d_fu]

Nice samples, Michael. If I didn't have three 803s already, I'd go and buy 930s..
It's a shame Beyer can't be convinced to make a 910 and 950 (omni/hyper). The 801 and 805 are excellent. 805 also works well on solo violin, and I love it on a lute/theorbo.

Daniel