huub
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#1
8th October 2008
Old 8th October 2008
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Talking power outage and wav files

Hi all,

I did a little test with recording wav (BWAV) files on both a pc running pyramix and one running reaper and just for giggles I pulled out the power chord..
Both pyramix and reaper have recorded .wav files, only thing is, these are unreadable by every app I tried, also programs that can read wav as RAW files do not understand these files..

Is anyone aware of an application/company that is able to read these wav files, or are these files unreadable for ever???

Thanks,
huub
#2
8th October 2008
Old 8th October 2008
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Did you try soundhack? index

-Ben
huub
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8th October 2008
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No, but will do so, when I get back from my holiday (in 3 weeks )
huub
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8th October 2008
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Hmm, I had a copy on a stick, and although I can change the header to the correct info, the file still will not play..
#5
8th October 2008
Old 8th October 2008
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I've encountered this as well. You still have a WAV, but seemingly no way to play it...
ark
#6
9th October 2008
Old 9th October 2008
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ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
Hmm, I had a copy on a stick, and although I can change the header to the correct info, the file still will not play..
What precisely did you change, and how did you change it?
huub
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9th October 2008
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It was headerless, in soundhack I could change it to 24bit, 48khz and 1 channel, which lead to, well, nothing..
#8
9th October 2008
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Quote:
and just for giggles I pulled out the power chord..
Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
No, but will do so, when I get back from my holiday (in 3 weeks )
Good workout rutine for holidays preparation!!!
thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup
#9
9th October 2008
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Soundhack is great for restoring headers to any file that has lost them (especially for things like SDII files that lost headers in a Mac-PC transfer). That being said, if the file itself is corrupt, there won't be much that you can do to fix it.

--Ben
#10
10th October 2008
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I think Pyramix has an application for recovering damaged files like this, but it is not distributed with the main application. You have to write to them when you are in trouble and they will give you a download link.

I could be wrong here, but I have a vague recollection that may or may not be a figment of my imagination.
#11
10th October 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klaukholm View Post
I think Pyramix has an application for recovering damaged files like this, but it is not distributed with the main application. You have to write to them when you are in trouble and they will give you a download link.

I could be wrong here, but I have a vague recollection that may or may not be a figment of my imagination.

Indeed it does, but they have to be pyramix files. Effectively what it does (as I understand it) is re-write the file from the saved to disc data and produces a footer file to close it off so it can be recovered. I would assume (as Pyramix files are fairly similar to wav's) that a similar application for wav's could be written, whether anyone has or not I don't know.

Regards


Roland
#12
10th October 2008
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I believe good ol' Cool Edit Pro (now Audiotion) is good at opening unknown/corrupt files where you can manually specify the format. I'm willing to try. You could mail or ftp me a short sample, if there is one.

Daniel
huub
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25th October 2008
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I have cool edit pro too, and, like wavelab and soundhack and so on, it cannot recognise any useful information in the file..
#14
26th October 2008
Old 26th October 2008
  #14
Blast. If the data is there, why can't we get to it?!?!?

UGH.
#15
26th October 2008
Old 26th October 2008
  #15
You have to adjust the offset 1 byte at a time (once for 16 bit and twice for 24 bits).. and you may have better results.

Rail
#16
26th October 2008
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It could also be the big endian/little endian thing. I recently had a hard drive with all the files from a festival a few years ago start to freeze a bearing, and was able to pull most of the data off of it. The day was saved!

Or so I thought-- the files would not open. Many of the heroic measures described in this thread were tried and finally the file the client needed (a 560MB WAV file) was able to playback, but there was NO AUDIO. Nothing. VEERRYY quiet. Can you whisper "corrupted data"?

This may be another thread-starter (a previous thread is:

Long Term Storage of Audio?

but I am looking into a DLT tape drive, and there is some interesting reading at:

Sound Directions: Digital Audio Preservation and Access for Global Audio Heritage

Happy archiving!

Rich
huub
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23rd December 2008
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Ah, finally found a solution that seems to work (did one little experiment, looked good)
merging (of pyramix) make a little free utility called WAVrecoverer (they're swiss :p) which converts these unreadable wavs into pyramix .pmf files... So no more paranoia over powerloss and failing ups's and what not
#18
23rd December 2008
Old 23rd December 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
Ah, finally found a solution that seems to work (did one little experiment, looked good)
merging (of pyramix) make a little free utility called WAVrecoverer (they're swiss :p) which converts these unreadable wavs into pyramix .pmf files... So no more paranoia over powerloss and failing ups's and what not

I squirreled away a copy of it too, I haven't needed to ever do this before, but, I'm sure in the future it will really come in handy!

Roland
huub
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#19
23rd December 2008
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But aren't you a protools company now?
#20
23rd December 2008
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Surely a UPS would work, as well as prevent voltage spikes? No good after the fact, but definitely effective prevention.

Rich
huub
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#21
23rd December 2008
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Hmm, of course it would.. Thing is though, we have never, ever had a generator failure during a concert (only with local power in southern european or more exotic countries), and according to our chief vision/truck design engineer UPS's fail every once in a while, because the batteries in em can become unreliable.. So I'm thinking a UPS might cause more problems than solve em...

Dunno... What's everyones experience with UPS??

Huub
#22
23rd December 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
But aren't you a protools company now?

I can be whatever you want, if you are hiring!

Still as committed to Pyramix, however, now I have Pro Tools as well, I can cover all the bases. With these two pretty much any customers requirements are handled.


Roland
#23
23rd December 2008
Old 23rd December 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
Hmm, of course it would.. Thing is though, we have never, ever had a generator failure during a concert (only with local power in southern european or more exotic countries), and according to our chief vision/truck design engineer UPS's fail every once in a while, because the batteries in em can become unreliable.. So I'm thinking a UPS might cause more problems than solve em...

Dunno... What's everyones experience with UPS??

Huub
Onstage the micamps/ADC have a power conditioner to always receive the correct voltage, but seeing as how the show stops if the power quits there is no UPS there.

In the control room it's a different story- a small Belkin UPS stops power surges and give enough juice for an orderly retreat and saving of files. And when the battery needs replacement every 5-7 years the failure mode is obvious-- the unit won't pass power so you know something's wrong. Batteries for a small units are about $20 each. Cheap insurance!

Rich

Last edited by sonare; 24th December 2008 at 03:41 PM.. Reason: incomplete
#24
25th December 2008
Old 25th December 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland View Post
I can be whatever you want, if you are hiring!

Still as committed to Pyramix, however, now I have Pro Tools as well, I can cover all the bases. With these two pretty much any customers requirements are handled.


Roland
Same here,
both in house and rentals are about 50/50 on PMX and PT.
They each have their uses, both are rock solid.

So what we really need is a dual redundant UPS for the control room.
huub
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#25
26th December 2008
Old 26th December 2008
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Yes, for the main recorder I would love to have such a device..
Does this exist?
I could google it of course, but.. You know...
#26
26th December 2008
Old 26th December 2008
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klaukholm's Avatar
I would recommend you look at OneAC. They have a medical grade UPS that is designed for zero downtime. http://www.oneac-powercom.com/images...N_Series-m.pdf

Ideally you want a UPS that stil passes power through in the event of total catastrophic UPS failure. (i.e. the unit dies and you house power is fine)
#27
28th December 2008
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Here is a more in depth answer from one of the engineers for the largest UPS supplier in the EU:

Almost all UPSs have a bypass system to supply power when the UPS fails. It is not foolproof but it helps. If the system requires more reliability, then 2 or more UPSs are paralleled so that if one fails the other will continue to supply power. Chloride has bypasses or “static” bypasses in all their UPSs. Static meaning that it has no moving parts (i.e. electronic). The others have relays or contactors.

This all depends on the power level you are interested in. Chloride makes or distributes UPSs from 200 VA to 750 KVA. We can parallel from 6 KVA and up.

There are two major categories of UPSs.

1. Standby or line interactive: This is where the line power is used until a power outage occurs and then the inverter is started and supplies power. The major failure occur when transferring from line to inverter.

2. Double conversion: This is where the inverter runs all the time. The rectifier supplies power to the inverter and also charges the battery. When power goes out, the rectifier stops and the inverter is supplied from the battery with no break or transfer More reliable but a higher cost.

UPSs last up to ten or more years depending on the maintenance agreement or schedule. The batteries will typically last 3 to 5 years. Some longer, up to twenty years, depending on the type you buy.
huub
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#28
28th December 2008
Old 28th December 2008
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Great info, thanks!
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