LDC for brass under $200

[b808]

Hey guys,

I've got some live stuff coming up and I will need an LDC for recording trumpets and an LDC for trombones.

Any slutz know any mics that might be good for this?

[PlugHead]

IME,

for LDC, you won't find anything really 'worth' recording horns for that scratch...

I'd suggest trying a ribbon like the Cascade Fathead (I or II) - one can be had for about $150, 2 for $300 or so. Or even on the cheap(er), an Apex or T-bone depending where you are, tho these 2 aren't great mics, they can work OK on brass, just don't expect them to last longer than a couple of sessions.

Don't mess with cheap chinese LDC for horns - you'll regret it. I'd even suggest getting a couple of SM57's or 421's before fizzy condensers on any brass.

My motto - buy once and be happy!

hope this helps,

[themaidsroom]

rent two coles 4038
any $200 ldc will be scary.
plain scary.
on brass.
run for your life scary.
the coles will make you save
up for a pair - they are absolutely
amazing on brass.



just how i see it
be well



- jack

[roonsbane]

You might get lucky and find a KSM-32 on ebay in the low $200's! Otherwise, don't bother.

Cameron

[woofhead]

I'd suggest a cad m179-not bright at all like alot of cheaper condensors and it's multipattern.Also pretty small for a ldc which is great for live.Ihave 3 and paid between $100-140 each.Nice clear low end as well so good for low brass.Good luck,

mike

[b808]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the tips.

The thing is I wont be recording this. Its just a live gig.

Does that help?

[ajfarber]

Stay away from cheap LDC mics. They can be okay if the player doesn't move, but the colour changes too much off-axis. The cheap ribbons like Cascade or Octava ml-52 would record better. Shit, just use some SM57s. You'll be fine with that. A $200 LDC won't really sound any better. If at all possible, beg borrow or steal some EV RE-20 mics. They are good for brass, but a garden-variety sm57 or 58 will be fine for a live gig. Most clubs in NYC just use 58s. If it's good enough for Birdland, it will be fine for your purposes.

[Shadow_7]

I had an AT4033a ($200 used from craigslist). It sounded awesome on Tuba. But that was about it. Trombone / Baritone voice was probably the weakest link. Horn and Trumpet were just okay. Lots of room got picked up though.

I like my STO-2's much better. Although I'd rather have ribbons. And the STO-2's are bass weak IMO. Except when it comes to wind noise. If you must have an LDC, you'd probably want something like an AT4050/4060, or Shure KSM-44, or sE Titan, way more than $200. Just bear in mind that LDCs will likely have more room than horn sound. You can close mic to some extent, but many horns loose their characteristic sound if recorded like that. SDCs or Ribbons are probably better. Even dynamics are probably better than LDCs for brass. (except for Tuba)

[theDBC]

Originally Posted by b808

Hey guys,

Thanks for the tips.

The thing is I wont be recording this. Its just a live gig.

Does that help?

If it's a live gig, go for dynamics. SM57 or i5 would work great.
Are the horns part of a band or is it just them? A condenser would work great if there is no drum kit or guitar amp on stage, but if there is you may get a lot of bleed depending on the stage size. Bleed isn't always bad, but it makes mixing slightly more challenging on smaller stages.

[Jungle Jazz]

If it is for live sound reinforcement without recording, I'd also suggest a good dynamic mic. Ideally, an RE20 or SM7B would be a good choice for live brass, but you'd have to get lucky on the used market to find either of them at your price. Some like the Heils, which I have no experience with, but you could probably do just fine with an SM57.

[Jim vanBergen]

used Shure SM-7s, E/V RE-20, RE-27, Senn 409s, Beyer M88s, M69, and M160 are all good choices for brass.

I can second the CAD mics for LDCs on a budget- they are quite a bargain, great value for the $$. I sold my matched pair of E-200s that I used to always use for horns and percussion and I have missed them many times. The E-100 (cardioid only) is a good steal used.

You didn't mention how many you need. The other issue is, while ribbons are AMAZING sounding, few of them are good for live reinforcement work unless you can get them positioned off axis. Beyer M160 is the way to go if you want a live ribbon mic IMO, unless there is a cheap chinese cardioid or hyper ribbon that I'm not aware of- suggestions?

One last suggestion- hitting right around 200 is the Telefunken M80, which is a dynamic mic but sounds like a condenser, yet it's not quite as sensitive- which for brass is ideal! I have found these mics to be wonderful, and am still shocked that they have not taken over the world yet.

[NorseHorse]

products

Has anyone used the Kel HM-2D? It is advertised as just what the OP is looking for, but I don't have any experience with it.

[thermos]

Cheap condenser and brass is the worst combo in sonic history. Get a fathead, end of story.

[lpkyer]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

products

Has anyone used the Kel HM-2D? It is advertised as just what the OP is looking for, but I don't have any experience with it.

Pick this one. It's gonna be the best.

[misterlong]

Have posted on here a few times about this,
I am currently using 2 apex 205 ribbons (with windscreen mods) on trombone and trumpet, and a modded (M joly) oktava 319 on sax. Sax works very well thru the apex too. The coles are truly awesome but beyond my means at the moment. In the meantime the apexes are working a treat.

I did a session at my studio with a top draw (platinum selling) artist the other day using my section and the mic combo as above, and by the end of the session he wanted a pair of the apexes! best value purchase I have made in years!!

I hope to swap out the transformers at some point, but I am too busy, and they work really well as is!

Hope this helps

long

[misterlong]

forgot to mention that previously I was using an unmodded oktava 319 on sax and it was very very good stock.
long

[yesac81]

i'd steer clear of anything made in china if your heart is set on a cheap ldc. oktava as mentioned would work. or grab a decent dynamic (re-16 for example)

horns are loud and bright as hell usually and dynamics are often the way to counter it out. ribbons too.

but i agree with the post up top of this thread. horns + cheaps = instant paint stripper on playback

[big country]

Originally Posted by theDBC

If it's a live gig, go for dynamics. SM57 or i5 would work great.
Are the horns part of a band or is it just them? A condenser would work great if there is no drum kit or guitar amp on stage, but if there is you may get a lot of bleed depending on the stage size. Bleed isn't always bad, but it makes mixing slightly more challenging on smaller stages.

and hopfully the horn player knows how to play mic dynamics

[Corran]

I wouldn't even use a good LDC on brass. I once put up a 414 on trumpet for a recording. Last time I have ever had a condenser within 5 feet of a brass instrument. SM-57 sounds just fine

[big country]

I would be interested in trying the PR40 on horns as it has allot of the highs and lots of lows , " great proximity "

[BlueSprocket]

I would run out and purchase a Heil PR-30 or PR-40.

The Pr-30 will be smoother sounding than the PR-40, which on blasting horns might be a very good thing. I've loved mine for a softened trumpet sound while recording.

The nice thing about these, is they're dynamic so they'll take abuse, they sound great and once you own them you will find TONS of uses for them. I agree that there are few condensers that will sound good in this environment and I can't think of a single one under $800.00. But, thats also my opinion.

[big country]

I was talking to a customer who wanted to use DPA Lav Mic's in a binaural he wanted me to build

In actuality its sounds like a great Idea not only would you have ability to create live pans , cool thing about using lav condensers in a Binaural is that you wouldn't pick to much stage sound ...

so you would have clean live pans, Psycho acoustic FX (spacing of mics )and low stage noise

personally that me be my dream horn mic.

but Im tottaly biased as I love

[misterlong]

Originally Posted by BlueSprocket

I agree that there are few condensers that will sound good in this environment and I can't think of a single one under $800.00. But, thats also my opinion.

Sorry! hadn't noticed this was a LIVE scenario!

I wouldn't try to record horns with LDC or ribbons on a live gig.

Dynamics all the way then!

Favourites of mine are:

Trombone: EV RE20 is an awesome mic on trombone as is (surprisingly) the AKG D112; (I have used a D112 a lot on trombone with great results) or standard SM58 (prefer 58's to 57 on trombone). That would be my order of preference.

Trumpet: Senn 421 (tames the harshness a little if your trumpeter likes to blow hard although I find them a little wooly on trombone) or again I prefer a 58 to a 57.

Sax: tenor and baritone a 421 or a 58, alto maybe a 57.

I have used beta 57's and 58's before a few times and got good results, but not had much chance to play with them.

I am normally only involved in engineering horn recordings in the studio. My experience of recording live is usually behind the mic so I don't get much choice in which one I use! However in my experience you very rarely see anything other than 57's and 58's on stage, with the occasional 421 thrown in (very occasionally!!) I would definitely stick with dynamics on stage especially if there is a drumkit and amps there. An LDC could become a nightmare!!

I do often use dynamics in the studio too, depending on what is available. Until I tried using ribbons, I would always use dynamics on my trombone. Having tried out loads of LDCs (414, U87 etc) and never found one that suited me, unless I was playing very sonorously and at a lower volume. I just found that they sounded harsh because I often play very loud and the sound can become a bit brittle.

Anyhow, hope this has helped a little

long