Contemporary Music Recording

[d_fu]

One of those opportunities...
Great music and musicians in one of my favourite halls.
I can't really claim that the orchestra specifically asked for me to record, I was hired by the organizer.

I'll post two short clips and a picture (from the video). Mic setup was as follows:
Straus packet AB (KM 131/Beyer MC 803), two JW-modded AKG 460/CK61 for winds and others (spotting groups, not individual instruments), 2 Beyer MC 805 on the piano, two 414 B-TL (not TL-II) on the percussion, an MKH 80 for the soloists (oboe & cello), another 805 for the harp, basta...

For copyright reasons, please pay no attention to the music..
(may not be everybody's cup of tea anyhow).

Daniel

[matyas]

It makes me really happy to see someone posting recordings of this kind of music on GS. (I sometimes feel like I'm the only one left who actually, genuinely likes high modernist music, at least in the U.S.!) I thought it was captured beautifully, with all of the subtle timbral and dynamic contrasts that one wants to hear in post-serial music translating faithfully. I am curious who the composers were - the first piece sounded familiar, but the second piece did not.

[henryrobinett]

Oh man! I love it! the first sounded like a composer form teh 2nd Viennese School, -- you know Schoenberg, Allban Berg or Webern. I'd put my money on Berg. Probably none of the above. 12 tone rows can sound similar.

The second piece was more contemporary, in style anyway. Was that an alto or soprano sax?

[henryrobinett]

Oh yes! The recording sounds wonderful!

[fafalio]

no, it is not the second vienna school. absolutely no berg.
it remenber me something post edgar varese and john cage.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by fafalio

no, it is not the second vienna school. absolutely no berg.
it remenber me something post edgar varese and john cage.

Really?? the first piece reminded me of Wozzeck and the Violin Concerto. LOL. Neither of them sound anything like Cage or Varese to me. But it's been awhile . . . I could be wrong.

[resound]

I've got your back, Matyas.

[NorseHorse]

Great recording. Clean as a whistle. Plenty of room for the music to play.

[resound]

BTW, very well done recording. If this was live, it is pleasantly absent of any conspicuous audience noise. Great tonal balance, too!

[d_fu]

Thanks for the compliments...

The recording is indeed live, and there is some coughing here and there.
The first piece is from 1952/3 (by a well-known german composer of "Neue Musik", who passed away last year), the second (with the oboe) was composed in 2007.

Henry, there ain't no sax here anywhere... Are you talking about the soloist? That's an oboe.


Daniel

[mohthom]

Man, that's some good tootin' from the oboist!

It's great to see someone else enjoying recording contemporary music. I find that the majority of people I've worked with or met while recording contemporary music see it as either a booby prize or don't know what they're getting themselves in to. The number of recordists I've met who can't read a score!

I wasn't convinced by the sound of the harp (too loud, too much HF emphasis, too wooden for my tastes) - how did you have it set? Recording the harp is somewhat a pet project of mine, so I'm very picky (and very aware of it) about how it sounds.

I'd post clips of my own but . . . . copyright etc. etc. - btw, I wouldn't name the S man (even if you do post clips) - his lawyers are reputedly fierce!

Congrats on the great sounding recording!

MohThoM

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by mohthom

The number of recordists I've met who can't read a score!

Couldn't say I'm really good at it... I can follow, but I don't really listen to the musical content while recording anyhow, and score-reading would turn my concentration away from the sound, detecting noises, etc. And then of course, the kind of scores for pieces like these are even more difficult to read...

I wasn't convinced by the sound of the harp (too loud, too much HF emphasis, too wooden for my tastes) - how did you have it set?

I'll admit I didn't pay very detailed attention to it - I just placed one (hypercardioid) Beyer MC805 in front of it, about 1m high, facing the soundboard. I had to keep moving mics quickly between pieces.
What's a better placement?

btw, I wouldn't name the S man (even if you do post clips) - his lawyers are reputedly fierce!

I've removed the name... Anyway, I told you all not to pay attention to the music for copyright reasons, and what do I get? Guessing games and discussions about twelve-tone stuff.

[henryrobinett]

Thanks! Yeah the S man. I'm only familiar with his latter work, and only some of it. Don't know the other guy.

Oboe! Well I was listening on my little speaker in the Powerbook and low volume. I guess my jazz training associated it with a soprano sax. I've heard some modern pieces with that, mostly written by composers who were or are also jazz players.

[matyas]

Originally Posted by VukOnCrack

I've got your back, Matyas.

Thanks, Vuk. As soon as I found out who was the mystery composer, I kind of kicked myself. There was an old recording of that piece at the local public library that I obsessively checked out as a teenager.
Someone thought the harp sounded a bit "wooden" - perhaps, but in this style, where the harp could be thought of as an adjunct to the percussion section (or maybe a link between the percussion and the strings), I don't think that's a bad thing.
Germany has such fine new music ensembles. I studied in Austria and went to Darmstadt and was always very impressed with the playing of German (also Austrian, Swiss, Dutch, etc.) new music specialists.

[edwinhurwitz]

Nice recording! As the grandson of Gardner Jencks, I have to say that I really enjoyed the music as well. I miss listening to this kind of music, let us know if it gets released!

Edwin

[d_fu]

More of the above...

One year later, same hall, same orchestra, different mic setup. Had to fly mics, I was asked not to run around and move mic positions between pieces, as I had done last time.

Three sets of mics, a pair of Neumann KM 131, a pair of Sennheiser MKH 40, and three Beyer MC 803 just facing downward, set up to catch as much as possible.
Plus one AKG 414 for soloists.

Pics and a short sample attached.

[jnorman]

very very nice, herr fu - thanks for posting this.

[cyjanopan]

I`m listening thru shitty speakers in lcd so cant say anything about sound, but the last clip is just midblowing stike

[Empiria]

Very nice sound, Daniel. Very good recording.

About music. There is a category I call "interesting". It's interesting to listen to once or twice, but then you usually choose something different. I love XX century music, but not of this kind. Just my humble opinion.

Thanks for sharing the samples.

[mljung]

Agreed, I like both the music and recording!
I'm curious and have one question: Was there a more or less equal amount of all mikes involved or was one set the main pair [such as the KM-131]

Best,
Mads

[fifthcircle]

Thanks for posting. A good sounding recording indeed...

Is the reverb in here natural or added?

I do lots of recording of new music and it is tough- detail needs to be captured but at the same time, the ensemble needs to be preserved.

--Ben

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

Thanks for posting. A good sounding recording indeed...

Thanks.

Is the reverb in here natural or added?

No added reverb - did I mention I really like this hall...?

[JEGG]

+1
I really enjoyed hearing these very well made recordings! Wow.

I also liked the repertoire.

I have not yet ventured into flying mic's, and I hope I can avoid it. But I'm envious of those with the knowledge to do it when the circumstances require it.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by mljung

Was there a more or less equal amount of all mikes involved or was one set the main pair [such as the KM-131]

I guess the idea was to use the MKH 40 as main pair, adding ambience with the 131 and the 803s as spots for piano, wind instruments, percussion... But maybe the 131 is the main pair, and the MKH spot the strings... Does it matter?
Levels of MKH and 131 are almost the same in the mix.

[mljung]

Originally Posted by d_fu

I guess the idea was to use the MKH 40 as main pair, adding ambience with the 131 and the 803s as spots for piano, wind instruments, percussion... But maybe the 131 is the main pair, and the MKH spot the strings... Does it matter?
Levels of MKH and 131 are almost the same in the mix.

No it doesn't matter for other reason than my curiosity about sound quality rendered by different microphones. But you answered my question, that they were about the same level in the mix, thanks!

::
Mads

[JEGG]

d_fu if you're still here:

As a rule, do you use delays/or delay post with various group/spot mic's in your recordings?

Again, I really liked these recordings-they are food for the imagination. And, as someone already said, these are really clean. Congrats to you.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by JEGG

As a rule, do you use delays/or delay post with various group/spot mic's in your recordings?

Yes. Not sure whether I had already set up the delay when I made that last clip, I must admit... Maybe not.
But usually I do apply delay.

[boojum]

It must be a wonderful hall and you have captured it well. The man does it again!

[aracu]

Originally Posted by d_fu

Three sets of mics, a pair of Neumann KM 131, a pair of Sennheiser MKH 40, and three Beyer MC 803 just facing downward, set up to catch as much as possible.
Plus one AKG 414 for soloists.

A multichannel recording is a good strategy to hear the differences in the way the pairs pick up the sound, and to decide how they will be blended. If mics, spaces and recordings were more predictable it wouldn't be as interesting.

[imaginaryday]

Originally Posted by d_fu

One of those opportunities...
Great music and musicians in one of my favourite halls.
I can't really claim that the orchestra specifically asked for me to record, I was hired by the organizer.

I'll post two short clips and a picture (from the video). Mic setup was as follows:
Straus packet AB (KM 131/Beyer MC 803), two JW-modded AKG 460/CK61 for winds and others (spotting groups, not individual instruments), 2 Beyer MC 805 on the piano, two 414 B-TL (not TL-II) on the percussion, an MKH 80 for the soloists (oboe & cello), another 805 for the harp, basta...

For copyright reasons, please pay no attention to the music..
(may not be everybody's cup of tea anyhow).

Daniel

what pres did you use? what A/d?

by the way, it sounds fantastic! congrats.