combining LE rigs for live recording?

[colinyc]

So here's my situation:

A local church that we do live sound for on their bigger events has a gig upcoming, and they want us to track everything (off a split snake or the live console's direct outs), preferably to PT (the guy who will mix it at the end uses PT). They typically use around 30 channels, which is bad for me because I only have an 002 rig. But the new guy at work tells me he has an 003 rig, and it's pretty similar to mine with a presonus adat 8 pre box and such.

So, if my buddy uses his computer + 003 + adat pres to record channels 1-16, and I use my computer + 002 + adat pres to record 17-32... will it work?* We were thinking that after the recording is over he'd just import tracks 17-32 into his PT session and we'd give that session to the church guy.

But I'm thinking that we can't just both hit record after a count of 3 and expect it to line up in the end. I assume there has to be some sort of time code sync or something. The problem is, I've never used smpte or mtc or any of those and haven't the slightest clue on where to start.

Also, do we both have to run off the same word clock? Does that have anything to do with the timecode stuff?

Hallppp!

*btw, I know you can't run two digi boxes off one computer. this isn't asking how to do that.

[JamesMcp]

i did this with a mate one time. we used a 1kHz pulse as a clapper board to just mark the tracks at the beginning to then line them all up.
and use one clock if you can.

[psycho_monkey]

a Clapper board may not be exact enough - it's going to arrive at different mics at different times, so you've still got to line things up by eye. It might give you some idea though.

If it was me (and I have done this before) I'd try to get the inputs down to 24, then rent an HD24 or similar, along with splitters and enough preamps (if you don't own them yourself).

If you can't do it in 24 channels, rent 2 and sync them.

Then you can do a straight WAV file export into PT or similar. It'll be much more stable than a cobbled together PT rig, and if it's just for a one-off won't be too expensive.

If you HAVE to run 2 PT rigs, I'd lock them together via MIDI (and word clock). It won't be 100% tight, but will be better than guessing how delayed your ambience mics are with the clapperboard method.

[colinyc]

I guess I could just use some piece of outboard as a click track and send it to both rigs, but my concern is that over time things would get unaligned between the two rigs.

If you HAVE to run 2 PT rigs, I'd lock them together via MIDI

I guess my real question is, how exactly do you lock them together via midi? And I know the 003 has word clock (bnc) inputs, but my 002 does not. Both our presonus boxes do though, should we rent a master word clock and then run it to both presonus boxes and then have the digi boxes slave off those through ADAT?

[Jungle Jazz]

I'll second psycho monkey's recommendation. Use an HD24 (get the XR version if you can), and keep your tracks to 24 or fewer. It'll be more reliable and a lot less headache.

[JamesMcp]

i said "like" a clapper board, not an actual one on stage. the 1kHz pulse can be generated on the console or an external noise generator and then sent to all the consoles outputs, its all electronic, so has nothing to do with ambient mics.
the only difference between the tracks would then be how long each different converter takes to do the ADC, which would be a differences in the order of samples.
for a gig not incredibly important, especially if its not getting released, this would not matter.

[colinyc]

so, hypothetically, let's assume that 1) I need to do all 30 tracks and 2) I need to link these two PTLE rigs together.

Can anyone give me a rough (or detailed) guide on how to use midi to link these two rigs? Or do I even have to? If I just have a few bars of click at the beginning of the tracks, can I align them that way and not have things stray apart after let's say.. 2 straight hours of recording?

[henryrobinett]

Dang. If it were ME, and I've done this before, I'd bring four of my Metric Halo boxes, or three and an adat device, record it and later just drag the files into PT. I'd record all 30 or 32 tracks and be done with it. Give it to him in PT.

Now that's me because I have MH boxes, but I'm sure there are others you can use ti get all your 30 tracks. Dragging them into PT is a no brainer.

[kooz]

1. sync the 2 rigs via MIDI.
2. clock one of the rigs from the other
3. split a time ref signal - a short burst of noise or tone from the FOH console, for instance - to both rigs and buss that to all tracks while it's running before the service/performance.

There ya go...after the recording, import the tracks from one rig into the other, line up the time ref noise and Bob's your uncle.

[theblotted]

-connect the 2 rigs via MIDI.
-goto Setup/Session/Time Code Settings, set Master rig to 'using MTC'.
-goto Setup/Peripherals/Synchronization, set your Master's MTC Generator port, then Slave's MTC Reader's port.
-Apple - J on Slave rig to put it into Sync mode.
-hit Record on Master rig.

voila.

if 2 hours, you may wanna consider using 44.1 or 48khz and 16bit. yes 16, not 24. it'll be easier on the drives and cpu. i recommend finding spots during the performance where you can stop and record again. audio files won't be completely written until you hit stop.

PT have a limitation of 2GB per audio file, but i don't think you'll hit that in 2 hours.

[colinyc]

<3 theblotted

[maxpidge]

if you cant sync your systems then run a bass d.i. to both an at the beggining and end of tthe show take the cable and touch the bare end...

then import the audio from one to the other and group each system, then line up the noise from the bass d.i.... i do this all the time and it works great...

[janiels]

I did this exact same thing and had problems lining up the tracks. I had no good way to sync the two rigs together so I ended up doing it all by hand! Yikes!!! The two systems drifted in and out from one another.
If I could do it again in a pinch I would have split the snare or some other transient source to both rigs and been good to go rather easily. Then you have a reference "clapboard" everywhere. Unfortunately I couldn't get my inputs down to 31 sources to do this. I am kicking myself now. This might be your easiest solution.

[barryjohns]

Too much room for error. Get another DAW and record the live stuff, then pull into Protools.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by JamesMcp

i said "like" a clapper board, not an actual one on stage. the 1kHz pulse can be generated on the console or an external noise generator and then sent to all the consoles outputs, its all electronic, so has nothing to do with ambient mics.
the only difference between the tracks would then be how long each different converter takes to do the ADC, which would be a differences in the order of samples.
for a gig not incredibly important, especially if its not getting released, this would not matter.

That's all well and good - but if you were taking splits pre-console (when I did this, I used a rack of linked ATI (??? something like that) pres, and it wouldn't have been possible to do this, without repatching everything.

multing the snare to each would be a clever, fairly foolproof work around I should think..then maybe clock together, but not midi sync? and line up afterwards...

I'd still be inclined to hire a proper system for one night - if it's of any importance at all. If it doesn't really matter...then have a go.