414XLII or KSM44 for stereo recordings? (mainly choirs)

[villeman]

Hi All!

I am looking for a nice stereo recording setup for mainly choir recordings.

I have narrowed down my choices to a pair of AKG 414XLII´s or a pair of Shure KSM44´s. The setup will also be used for drum OH´s.

BTW. I just sold my Royer SF12, since I felt it needed too much gain for choirs.

Any suggestions or recommandations?

Thanks!!!

[krs]

I haven't used any of the new 414's, but i can definitely say I wouldn't recommend the KSM44 for this job. It is a good all around mic, but deadly accurate transient response is not one of it's strengths. Also it has a big presence boost. In distant micing situations (IMHO, from my experience) this mic will get blown out of the water by most high quality SDCs (DPA, Neumann etc). YMMV.

[villeman]

Thanks for the suggestion!

The 414 seems to be widely used for this kind of application among others.

Any other mics which could compete in this price range?

Also, is the XLII the way to go or is the XLS a better choice?

[zimv20]

i think i would have kept the royer and upgraded the preamp.

as krs indicated, i'd also be looking at smaller diaphragms. since i've got them, i'd start with the Avenson STO-2's and consider a pair of earthworks if the avensons didn't cut it.

[Bob Olhsson]

The cheaper brandnew 414 sounded lots better to me. The other one sounded like the highs and lows were disconnected much like older 414s.

The built in shock mounting alone will make it outperform many mikes in that application.

[villeman]

Well, I have a Vintage Design dual 1073 knock-off which gives 80dB gain. I also have a A-design MP1, but none of these are quiet enough for delicate passages with the SF12. Seriously, I doubt there are any pre´s that can boost 70dB´s without adding any hiss.

About the XLS vs. XLII: Very interesting. So, the cheaper XLS is preferred by some.

Thanks for the valuable tips.
Keep them coming

[Don S]

If you don't need multipattern and are focused on cardioid, i would try a pair of KSM32's. They are not LD and work very well in ortf. I see them alot on drum OH. Very low self noise, and relativly inexpensive. I got mine on ebay for about 300. A very versitle mic!

[the1Hub]

Originally Posted by villeman

Well, I have a Vintage Design dual 1073 knock-off which gives 80dB gain. I also have a A-design MP1, but none of these are quiet enough for delicate passages with the SF12. Seriously, I doubt there are any pre´s that can boost 70dB´s without adding any hiss.

About the XLS vs. XLII: Very interesting. So, the cheaper XLS is preferred by some.

Thanks for the valuable tips.
Keep them coming

Millenia media hv3. I use it all the time in choir and other classical recordings. we audtioned or bought about every pre on the planet and the hv3 is what we decided on.

as far as mics go i liked the tlii for choirs but i have not had a chance to try the new ones out. i perfer omnis though like neuman m150s but there not exactly in the same price range

[villeman]

I am sure the HV3 can deliver tons of clean gain, but reading your post I understand you are using M150´s which are LD condensers. I guess you don´t need 75dB gain for those.

[the1Hub]

actually the m150 and tlm50 are not large diaphram mics

form the neumann website...

he Titanium diaphragm of the pressure capsule is 12 mm in diameter and is exceedingly thin. Although Titanium has been known to have unique and desirable characteristics for some time, it has, until very recently, been very difficult to procure in the quality necessary for use in a microphone of this type.

as far the amount of gain goes it depends on the source. for a syphony usually between 18-36 db will do. but on some sources like a solo voice peice or flute duet we could deffinatly use a lot of gain. we dont close mic anything. we are anywhere from 15 to 45+ feet away from a source. clean gain at all levels is very important to us. we do a lot of chiors, they are typicly in the 30 to 45 db range. we have 5 perfectly matched m150s, i cant say enough about gettin matched microphones for this type of application. its deffinatly worth the extra cost.

[jdunn]

Originally Posted by zimv20

i think i would have kept the royer and upgraded the preamp.

I pretty much agree with this. Have you considered the phantom powered Royer SF-24? Well, I doubt you're going to buy one of those after getting rid of an SF-12 anyway. Again, I love my SF-12 with the DACS MicAmp.

Why do you need so much gain? How hot do you need to record? If it's 24-bit and a good converter, you don't need to peg the meters. Peaks can be -6 or more below the overload point on your converters. That way you can actually make it louder in mastering, as opposed to being stuck with nowhere to go.

What about a pair of Josephson C42?

[villeman]

I need a lot of gain on soft passages. If could reach -6dB with reasonable gain I would be very satisfied, but recording female choirs (4 vocals) is not a very loud source.

[fifthcircle]

Originally Posted by jdunn

I pretty much agree with this. Have you considered the phantom powered Royer SF-24? Well, I doubt you're going to buy one of those after getting rid of an SF-12 anyway. Again, I love my SF-12 with the DACS MicAmp.

I use the SF-24 all the time- especially for choir recordings. It is a great mic for choirs- especially when I balance it with my B&K 4006's as flanking mics. The SF-24 can be somewhat of a cranky beast in the field when it comes to positioning it, some rooms it just isn't happy. It is a great sound, though. You still need a very clean mic pre that has loads of gain in it. The nice thing about the phantom version is not so much that you get more gain, but rather you don't have to wory about long cable runs and you don't have to match as carefully to your preamp.

--Ben

[jdunn]

If the ribbon isn't cutting it for you, try those Josephson C42's or some Schoeps or some Audio Upgrades modded AKG C 460's. These are all small diaphragm of course. If you want to use the bigger capsules, take your pick I guess.

Another thought is the Pearl microphones, the ones with the rectangular capsule.

Pearl Microphones

I believe Tim from EAR was using these capsules as the basis for his custom tube mics. Those are the mics that were/are used by Kavi Alexander on his acoustic stereo label, Waterlilly Acoustics is it?

As for the mics you mentioned in the original post, I haven't heard the new AKG. I do own a pair of AKG C-414 B/ULS that are modded by Audio Upgrades. I think these would be very good for what you're doing. They're pretty silky, especially through a nice tube or class a pre.

[villeman]

Thanks for all the great advise

I just ordered a matched pair of AKG 414XLS.

I will report after my first session.