Legal dealings for Remotesters......

[XLR2XLR]

Hi all,

I have been considering the position I could find myself in, if a few situations came about. Now these are rare but nonetheless the pro thing to do is investigate as I am sure a number of you may have done already.

1)Vehicle breaks down on way to sound check / car accident en route to venue.

2)Technical failure and my liability.

3) Public liability

I have spoken to a couple of insurance companies and they would not insure against 1) and neither would they insure an individual against loss of recorded data i.e. a sole trader or self employed engineer (unless it was inclusive in their "Recording Studio" insurance package at a fixed residence.

Sure, we maintain our cars and we run UPS and back ups but what happens if that one off gig goes t*ts up or you don't make it to the gig for whatever reason. Not a place anyone of us would want to be.

3) is covered on my gear insurance up to $2,000,000.00 and is easy to get incured for generally.

How do you make this element of remote recording safer and reduce your chances of liability in the event of a failed recording, i.e. if someone was releasing the recording and stood to make $100,000.00 off the back of it and your employer got nasty and wanted to sue you?

Do you have a contract in place which indemnifies you?

This is a serious side of remote recording which has somewhat taken the shine off the fun side, like my mic splits and preamps !

[John Willett]

Does professional indemnity insurance cover this?

If not, maybe you could put something in your terms and conditions to cover yourself.

[Roland]

Originally Posted by John Willett

Does professional indemnity insurance cover this?

If not, maybe you could put something in your terms and conditions to cover yourself.

I doubt you could get cover for this, at least at an acceptable rate. The trick is to try and cover your bases, however, even professional broadcasters like the BBC occasionally have trouble on OB's with all their resources and built in redundancy.

I specify to my customers that whereas every effort is made to comply with the requirements of the job my liability is limited to the charge I make for the job. Fortunately I've never been in the situation where I have had to invoke this.

As unlikely as it is, take the situation where a mixing desk on a location truck suffers a catastrophic failure, short of being able to get another hire unit in there is little that could be done. I've personally never heard of it, but I'm sure that someone like Steve Remote would know of stories like this.

Regards


Roland

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Roland

I specify to my customers that whereas every effort is made to comply with the requirements of the job my liability is limited to the charge I make for the job.

I like that - clear and up-front - and if the worst comes to the worst you don't get paid.

A good idea.

It actually happened to me once - I was involved in a car accident on the way to a job (actually wrote off the car) and could not get there at all. Luckily it was just a small thing for friends and they got round it - but would have been very bad had it been a proper paying job.

[Plush]

I think that what you are talking about is revolving around the "good maintenance, good preparation" mantra.

Before we go out to a big job, we test the rig we will use. If it tests good the day before or the morning of a job, it is unlikely to fail on the job.

Same thing with one's car/van/truck. You are spending money on maintaining it so that it will be reliable. Both of these cost time and money and this is a perfect argument for not working cheaply. Always get a good and proper fee for your work.

Car crash---ba-boom?? Protect against that by not being stoned or drunk. Otherwise, tough luck.

Liability insurance is easily covered and you should have this as part of your good insurance policy.

I have never come across the situation where a recording failed and anyone asked me for money to cover their potential profit or sales. If they did ask, I'd tell them to talk to my lawyer. We would never enter into a contract that had any reimbursement clause or such. I would pass on the job. I have never seen such a clause.

If you can't arrive at the recording because of an emergency, that's the way it goes. The job will not be recorded. To keep things in perspective, no one will die if the artiste does not get recorded that day.

[XLR2XLR]

Much obliged for the responses.

Yes, I take testing very seriously and also motor maintanence, however before I was self employed my car broke down on the way to a Live broadcast and the near 30 min mobile phone call to the producer on the intricacies of wiring the studio patchbay was not fun !

Point is, things do occasionally happen and I also think the point that Roland brings up seems a fair way of dealing with it , the client can always go elsewhere if they are not in agreement.

I spoke to the insurance company today and they said the cost of insuring against
breakdowns and total loss of recordings would be immense and not suitable for my business plan (they mainly insure bands against cancellations) and fixed studios.

Driving sober goes without saying !

Boring, scary and pretty awful but it's best not to bury heads in sand.

Thanks

[NorseHorse]

Good post. I was just thinking about the same thing.

I'm going to make sure to include it on contracts that "If a recording (and backup) fails for some reason, the cost of recording will be refunded. [WE] or not responsible or liable for any other losses associated with a recording failure."

Or something along those lines. Can someone post a good legalese paragraph akin to this?

[bishopthomas]

I have been involved in an accident on the way to a gig before. It was a live sound job and the owner of the company stayed behind with his totaled trailer while myself and another crew member rented a truck and did the job. I wasn't there but a year later the same guy got into another wreck (this time wasn't his fault, just unlucky) and it damaged quite a bit of gear. He was able to call another sound company that happened to be able to work VERY last minute. I guess the moral of the story is: Have good employees/friends/colleagues who can cover your back when the shit hits the fan.

[Roland]

I didn't post this earlier, however, I would add (following on from Plushes post) that there are situations where the costs involved can be considerable, for example where the hire of an orchestra are involved, this can run into 10's of thousand's of pounds. I can imagine that insurance for "consequential loss" would be unrealistically high. It's these sort of situations where the usual Act of God, unforceeable circumstances, limited to the cost of supply, clauses come into being. There are few of us out there who realistically could ever cover this level of liability. That being said, the post above show's that there are usually options to stop the job being totally washed out.

Regards


Roland

[XLR2XLR]

the cost of recording will be refunded

Well that certainly is the least that should be offered, but was it the fee that was being charged for the recording that was being offered in Rolands post? seems so......

i.e. I charge $500.00 for a recording, I don't get there or it breaks, I offer no more
than $500.00 compensation to my client?

A standard refund whilst at the minimum is a a legal requirement seems a little short of the mark, possibly?

Thanks for replies.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by XLR2XLR

Well that certainly is the least that should be offered, but was it the fee that was being charged for the recording that was being offered in Rolands post? seems so......

i.e. I charge $500.00 for a recording, I don't get there or it breaks, I offer no more
than $500.00 compensation to my client?

A standard refund whilst at the minimum is a a legal requirement seems a little short of the mark, possibly?

Terms and conditions is one thing - what you actually *do* is another.

If it's a good customer and you want more business you may offer a free recording, for example.

So you limit your liability in the T&Cs and then "as a gesture of goodwill" offer something to overcome the problem.

I had a problem once where a recorder jammed on a tape (DAT) change in the middle of a concert and I missed the first four notes of a piece - not a happy customer.

BUT - he was performing the same programme two weeks later at a different venue.

I did the original session at a reduced price and recorded the next one as well at the same reduced price.

He ended up being very happy as he performed the piece better the second time and could also choose the best pieces from the two performances instead of just one.

I had to do two recordings for the price of one and a bit - but ended up with a very happy customer who has come back to me again and again.

[Plush]

Originally Posted by XLR2XLR

Well that certainly is the least that should be offered, but was it the fee that was being charged for the recording that was being offered in Rolands post? seems so......

i.e. I charge $500.00 for a recording, I don't get there or it breaks, I offer no more
than $500.00 compensation to my client?

A standard refund whilst at the minimum is a a legal requirement seems a little short of the mark, possibly?

Thanks for replies.

No, you offer nothing to your client because if you don't do the work, you do not collect the fee. Besides, you owe nothing if there is a mistake. You never indemnify your client on any job. Where do you get these ideas that something is owed?

It is a tape recording, not a surgery.

[NorseHorse]

I'm with Plush. If something goes horribly wrong, I don't want to OWE the client anything. I just won't charge them since I didn't provide a service.

Once, I forgot to plug my computer in (doh't!) and it shut down halfway through a recital. I did a second recording session with the pianist/violinist to record the missing pieces for free. It all worked out.

[XLR2XLR]

The way I was seeing it, was that if you are going to record a one off event and you fail to do so for technical or other reasons there may be a case for compensation, afterall if there was one chance to record and you blew it, it almost seems reasonable to me.

Maybe I am wrong?

Of course paying nothing is best for me !

I guess your name would be pretty much mud if you only had the one chance anyway, there would unlikely be a repeat business scenario after that whther you compensate or not.

[XLR2XLR]

Sure if there is a chance to rectify the situation it would be very sensible and the right thing to do, but with a one off chance it might be more unpleasant and more
difficult to "correct" the issue with a free recording offer.

Maybe I am just going into this a little too deeply afterall it is fairly unlikely.

[Roland]

Originally Posted by XLR2XLR

Sure if there is a chance to rectify the situation it would be very sensible and the right thing to do, but with a one off chance it might be more unpleasant and more
difficult to "correct" the issue with a free recording offer.

Maybe I am just going into this a little too deeply afterall it is fairly unlikely.

So you get booked for $700, the job goes pearshaped, you don't charge your fee, you are $150 out expenses, you pay the client say $1,000 compensation, you don't get booked again, because the client figures it's not just force of circumstances, you must be in the wrong that you want to pay that sort of compensation. It may deal with your own guilt, but if you are a pro, you should be able to put it down to an unfortunate circumstance that is unlikely to happen again.

Regards


Roland

[Remoteness]

Excellent thead topic -- thanks XLR2XLR.
Some very good points where made.
I will chime in on this when I come up for air -- real soon I hope.

[NorseHorse]

A "make-up" recording is not always an option. In which case, they just get their money back.

But if it's something for a big release, I would hope there would be backup recorders or two...

[justpushplay]

Originally Posted by Roland

I didn't post this earlier, however, I would add (following on from Plushes post) that there are situations where the costs involved can be considerable, for example where the hire of an orchestra are involved, this can run into 10's of thousand's of pounds.

That is my worse case scenario, except mine almost always involves 6+ video cameras and a full crew or even a video truck. I've got full replacement value insurance on my gear and plenty of liability on my people, but I need to talk to my insurance rep about this type of liability. UPS's and redundant Radars are a good start, but I'd really like to not have a TV network (Or ANYONE for that matter) pissed off because somebody in a Genie inadvertently severed a snake during that one-off reunion concert and wanted compensation....:-(

Michael

[Roland]

Originally Posted by justpushplay

That is my worse case scenario, except mine almost always involves 6+ video cameras and a full crew or even a video truck. I've got full replacement value insurance on my gear and plenty of liability on my people, but I need to talk to my insurance rep about this type of liability. UPS's and redundant Radars are a good start, but I'd really like to not have a TV network (Or ANYONE for that matter) pissed off because somebody in a Genie inadvertently severed a snake during that one-off reunion concert and wanted compensation....:-(

Michael

And I think that it is just this sort of scenario that would be cost prohibitive to insure against, mainly because it's difficult to quantify, the sort of failure you are talking about is probably a 1 in a 1,000, with piss poor crew (or just one idiot only) it could be almost odds on.

The scenario I mentioned earlier with a console going down on a broadcast truck is next to nothing in terms of liklihood, however, I don't know any broadcast truck that carries a spare and it wouldn't be of any use if it happened mid concert.

Regards


Roland

[Shadow_7]

IMO, if the gig is that important, there should be at least two crews / sets of equipment there for redundancy.

I've been to a gig where things fell apart. In part because of hurricane ernesto. While most are quick to forgive an act of god. I have trouble doing so, in that the actual climate was rain and wind. And not that much of it relative to what it could have been. Something which is historically present 30% of the time at that annual event.

In short 40% of the prelims competition didn't even get recorded. And that which did was low quality. Compounded by the finals competition footage the next day having better recordings under similar conditions. It really got my goat as the group I was with didn't make finals. And thus my interest in and acquisition of recording gear. I just can't trust anyone other than myself to do it right.

[NorseHorse]

I've just recently signed a contract with a regional classical ensemble for their 08-09 season. Their original contract was decent and it outlined the basic terms: concert dates, fee per concert, delivery of two unedited CDs within a week, etc...

I've added additional terms in in the form of an Addendum in order to clarify some issues. I've italicized a small portion especially pertinent to our discussion:

-------------------------

12. Additional Duties and Responsibilities of the Recording Engineer. The Recording Engineer shall be responsible for moving all recording equipment. Under no circumstances shall the ENSEMBLE move recording equipment. The Recording Engineer shall run a back-up system during all concerts. In the event of a complete data loss of both the primary and secondary systems during or after the recording (including but not limited to a power outage or surge, hard drive failure, theft, or auto accident) the Recording Engineer shall refund the Compensation. No other recompense shall be owed. If needed, the Recording Engineer shall provide a compact disc of the recording optimized for AM or FM radio.

13. Duties and Responsibilities of the ENSEMBLE. The ENSEMBLE shall notify the Recording Engineer if a concert recording is scheduled for radio broadcast, so that the Recording Engineer can provide an optimized compact disc. The “original recording” identified in Section 6 shall not be used for radio broadcasts.

14. Album Credit. If a concert recording is manufactured as an album by the ENSEMBLE, the name of the Recording Engineer and “CBA Recording” shall be credited on the back cover of in legible font at least 1/8” tall.

---------------------------

Much of what I included is for the ENSEMBLE's benefit: 1) I move equipment, 2) I'll use a back-up system, and 3) I'll give you a CD for radio if you want. I was going to do these things anyway, but writing it into the contract improves their perception of my overall value and worth. After all, it's hard for someone to appreciate what they're getting if they don't know they're getting it, right?

Some if it is CYA (cover your ass): 1) I have some grounds to pursue the ENSEMBLE if they do touch and break gear, 2) I will give a refund and only a refund if the recording goes kaput, and 3) I can legally insist on being credited.

Some if it is for quality control: In August, I attempted to listen to a recording of the Richmond Symphony on public radio. (It was a live recording, but not a simulcast.) I attempted but failed, because it was so quiet! Seriously, I could only barely hear it when the whole orchestra was playing. The solos and soft sections were hopeless. A fair amount of classical recordings are plagued with this problem to one degree or another. Because the ensemble I'm working with periodically gives their live recording to local radio station(s), I'm insisting that they not use the "original recording" defined in the contract. I don't want to be part of that problem.

Anyone else have contract examples? Thoughts on mine?

[Roland]

Personally I would try and simplify it. For example, in the event of loss or failure of a recording, for whatever reason, CBR recordings liability will not exceed their fee for providing the service. As for not touching the equipment, most people wouldn't dream of interfering with your stuff, but say they do, what are you going to do about it? If you are not going to do anything just leave it out, much easier to just generally ask that please do not touch the equipment verbally, it comes over as a lot less anal.

Always assume that anything you send could get used for the wrong reason, nothing sent out the door should be unacceptable, even a "rough"! All broadcast stations have compression systems such as optimod on the main output, to try and second guess this by adding what you think will make it sound better is probably unwise. Almost all classical music carries too much dynamic range for broadcast, in the uk we have two national classical stations and they both use very different compression profiles.

As for recording credits I would ask that should the recording be used for release a legible credit should be included on either the back of the booklet or the inlay, specifying size and location can be a problem for some clients depending on what they want to do with their artwork design wise, in 28 years I've never had a customer not want to put a credit on the cd, however, some have included inside the back cover of the booklet as that is their "house style", many major labels do it here including Decca, Telarc, etc.

I would also suggest that you don't tie yourself down to when a copy should be made available to your client, there could be a number of reasons where this isn't practical for either yourself or your client and unless your client insists that they need a finished master by a certain time, for example, for a broadcast, I would not put that in. Supplying copies late to your client would not be good business practise, so more often than not the client will assume that you will perform your work in a timely manner.

Contracts are a good idea, as it saves on misunderstandings later, but, IMHO you don't want to sound like your lawyer is sitting in the office waiting for them to screw up.

Regards


Roland

[NorseHorse]

Re: Roland's Feedback

Radio: Of course even the "unedited" version will have editing and will be great. But that doesn't mean it's ideal for radio. It's OK if they pass it around, but at least I'm setting up the legal expectation that they'll let me know if they are planning a radio broadcast.

Gear: Yes, I've had people touch my gear before. I once had someone knock over a mic that I was borrowing! It turned out alright, but I'm trying to avoid it in the future.

Credit: I've had enough situations where I was not credited for the work I did, particularly with photography. And I've heard enough stories from other engineers about not getting credited for work. Basically, even if people seem "really nice", they can still jip you if it's not in writing. I don't mind being specific. If they want something else, at least they'll talk with me about it, and I'd probably be OK with it.

Simplification: Good idea.

Turn-Around: Their specified turn-around in the original contract is one week. That's the same as my max turn around time. For classical concerts, I always tell my clients the recording will be ready in a week or less. So... a week isn't a problem for me.

Basically, while I understand the sentiment that I "don't want to sound like my lawyer is sitting in the office waiting for them to screw up", no one should feel ashamed for putting something in writing.

[NorseHorse]

I got the opposite impression from Plush regarding the contract over on a different thread. He says it's too nice:

Originally Posted by Plush

By the way Norse, I would cut out any requirements that specify what you should do in your new proposed contract. No requirement to run a back-up, no requirement to do any specified certain things, no requirement to make a refund. Of course you DO go ahead and make a back-up and take other responsible actions. You just don't put it in writing. The reason is that you paint yourself into a corner when you specify what YOU are required to do. You're being way too nice.

Those are all definitely things that I've thought about, but in this particular case, I felt it was important that assert my "professionalism" and level of service in writing (not to mention CYA). I definitely get what you are saying though. I don't do this for other groups. There are some other things that I planned on doing that I threw out of my Addendum draft so I don't paint myself into a corner.

[Remoteness]

Ah yes, legal dealings for Remotesters; a truly important discussion for sure.

With proper preparation and sound maintenance these “remote possibilities” are rare and far between, but things do happen especially on the road...

Many remote facilities (particularly video teleproduction trucks) have gone with a tractor / trailer style vehicle. This design helps, if the tractor breaks down they could just swap out the tractor and they’re on their way again.

There’s not much you can do about an accident in route to your next location, but you can make sure you’re on point when you’re driving the vehicle.

Proper maintenance and backup devices will lend a hand to prevent technical failure.
UPS devices and other power protection and conditioning tools is key in our world of “on location” production. You only have one shot at capturing the experience.

Commissioning an insurance broker that knows your business can lead you in the right direction with regard to what kind of coverage your really need.

IMO, contracts are important, but do diligence in making sure you’re doing everything you can to be on point is the best insurance policy you can have. Carefulness is paramount and an excellent mantra to follow.

We have helped fellow Remotesters in the past and they have returned the favor.
Remember, we are a small group and must stick together to keep our businesses successful. Personally I like to look at the remote recording industry at large as associates rather than competitors…

We have bailed out remote trucks that could not make the recording because of an emergency, accident, equipment failure or something to that effect. It’s good to have a few friends and associates on call when it’s applicable. IMO, having a list of local rental houses and location recording companies on hand is an essential part of the pre trip prep.

It’s one thing getting booked for a $700 USD job and something goes wrong; it’s quite another story if it’s a $70,000 (or more) date and you or your equipment failed you.
A lot of folks are relying on you and your expertise – failure is not an option!

[Roland]

Originally Posted by Shadow_7

IMO, if the gig is that important, there should be at least two crews / sets of equipment there for redundancy.

I've been to a gig where things fell apart. In part because of hurricane ernesto. While most are quick to forgive an act of god. I have trouble doing so, in that the actual climate was rain and wind. And not that much of it relative to what it could have been. Something which is historically present 30% of the time at that annual event.

In short 40% of the prelims competition didn't even get recorded. And that which did was low quality. Compounded by the finals competition footage the next day having better recordings under similar conditions. It really got my goat as the group I was with didn't make finals. And thus my interest in and acquisition of recording gear. I just can't trust anyone other than myself to do it right.

Even the BBC with all their resources don't work this way, it's far to costly to justify. Your bad experience doesn't mean that it can be easily fixed, if you really think it's as simple as that you are fooling yourself.

If you look at the people in this thread who are doing the "high level work" those who do have good reputations and regularly close out work with serious clients, they are the ones to take the lead from. The fact that they don't paint themselves into corners with contracts and often rely on their professionalism to keep clients happy. Norse mentions above guarantees for delivery time, but what happens if you are taken ill, have an accident or there is a death in the family? Are you still going to be able to deliver the local choirs CD within the week or be in breech? If the contract is that important you should have in place the ability to have someone covering for you should you need it. Talk to any half decent lawyer and he will tell you that your contracts are to protect you, not tie yourself down.


Regards


Roland

[Remoteness]

Perhaps you can hire two crews and such or you can hire one competent crew with well maintained gear and vehicle.

You're only as good as your last gig in our business; become the go to company; hire the best equipment and crew you can fine -- go for the level of quality you can handle with no regrets.

[satiricalwonder]

This is a most illuminating thread.

[NorseHorse]

If I get ill or something and I can't get it to someone in as much time as I originally said, I just let them know. Any concrete time constraints would have been discussed before the recording and planned for accordingly (such as recently recording a soprano student audition less than a week before the recordings were due at some of the schools). If something serious were to have happened, I would have called another engineer up to edit the stuff.

And as I mentioned before, sometimes the contract (or the spoken agreement) is just a starting point so people know what to expect (ballpark). Otherwise they might be calling me the next day asking, "Is the recording ready yet?!"

Check out this discussion: Most UNPROFESSIONAL situation that's happened to you?

I didn't send the ENSEMBLE mentioned in my posts above the recording within a week. I had it finished two days after the concert, but they hadn't mailed me the rest of the contract. Two weeks after the concert, they mailed it to me; then I sent them the music. Gotta get those ducks in a row.

Man, I feel all weird posting so many times in one thread. I don't want to dominate the discussion. Anyone else have some examples?