Mics monitors and compression for operatic practice

[nody31]

Hi what a great site, I’m not an engineer nor a technician so I hope I’m still welcome here.


- been reading through the postings for a couple of weeks now but unless I have missed
something I cant quite find the answers that I’m looking for - so can anyone help?

I am an operatic baritone, and for my sins have a big voice – and when I practice I have always
used recording to judge what others would be hearing (literally for every phrase that I practice).
I am not interested in producing a product i.e. a CD. Only obtaining a true representation of
what I am doing so that I can judge it.

To this end I have for the past 15 years used a portable Sony DAT recorder along with a Sony
ECM909A mic and headphones (which have the inevitable result of producing ringing ears).

However times have moved on and I am now trying to find a more advanced practice setup.

I have tried various digital recorders and have now invested in a Korg Mr-1000 1 bit recorder,
which I think suits my requirements very well. And am now trying out (without much real
success) various microphones and powered monitors.



I have three main queries -

1. The best microphones to capture what’s actually there (taking into account the size of my
voice).

2. How to avoid tampering with the sound i.e. how to avoid losing anything through compression
or processing.

3. The best powered monitors to show what’s actually there .i.e. monitors which do not lose
information at low levels – but which can take being wound up when needed and which will
offer a life like representation of what I am doing.

The problem I face is that if the sound I hear back is lacking or enhanced in anyway I will over
time alter what I am doing to adjust for this – and as I perform without a microphone I will
inevitably end up with a false perception of the work that I am producing.


I suspect that what I am looking for over all is probably not actually out there but the following
is where i am at present.


1.

I have been looking for a stereo matched pair of mic’s and have so far tried both the
AKG 414 IB-X LII which I felt added colour to the sound and the 414 B XLS which didn’t
seem to pick up all that was there. I have also tried the cheaper AKG 214s which I felt
were more realistic – remember I want to use them as a mirror for my work not to enhance
the voice in any way.

However I know there must be better mic’s out there – and have been reading on this site
about Earthworks and Schoeps mic’s like the QTC 40 or the CMC5's with MK4 the capsules.

Bearing in mind the size of my voice and the realism that I am after does anyone
consider either to be suitable, or are there any other suggestions.


2.

I am trying to avoid changing the sound in any way ( and if possible to do without compression)
– this is easy when I monitor with headphones however I would like a setup where I monitor
back through speakers.

I have tried various powered monitors but find that at low volume the clarity that I am judging
disappears – however if I turn the volume up at all so that the sound is detailed it only takes a high
note to occur in the recording - and I’m either in a position of blowing drivers or if the monitors
that I have tried have cutouts then they take effect and the sound cuts out..

I end up turning the volume up and down all the time to avoid this and not concentrating on what
I’m hearing…. or, I end up going back to my headphones. I suspect therefore I need to consider
compression or processing the sound in some way, but how do I achieve this without compromising
what I am trying to hear, and where in the chain of mic recorder and monitor would I use it.

The monitors I have tried so far are the Adam A7’s which I was in danger of blowing and the
P11 and P33 which kept cutting out.


3.

One last point in trying to keep things simple I have not tried any mic pre amplification –


Well there you go - as above I did say that I wasn’t a technician …


Many thanks

[fifthcircle]

A couple thoughts:

1. Any good quality mic should work with the size of your voice. My personal preference for operatic vocal work is for Schoeps or Sennheiser, but there are plenty of mics that will work well. At a certain level it becomes personal preference and how much you are willing to spend. Positioning is the most important thing to learn. Figure out what sounds good and where to put it.

2. I understand the dynamic issue... If you are finding that you are causing too large of a dynamic swing, perhaps you are positioning the mics too closely. For a large voice, I wouldn't place them any closer than about 6-8 feet away (depending on the room and the sound of the piano I would assume you have playing with you). You shouldn't need compression. That being said, sometimes a small amount of dynamic manipulation can be a help in a recording.

3. The ADAM speakers should be fine- but if you aren't hearing what you need, it sounds like your listening room is lacking. Is there too much ambient noise to hear clearly at low levels? Speaker choice is just as personal as mic choice- there are lots of good ones out there.

You may want to post some samples of what you are currently getting and the forum members will critique and suggest ways to improve.

--Ben

[Corran]

It seems like I've been saying "Earthworks" a lot lately. I'm sure there are many things that would work for you, but I have to say that I think a pair of Earthworks omnis would be 100% accurate and that sounds like what you want. They also made some monitors that were supposed to be "perfect" in terms of reproduction, but not anymore (unless you find them used?).

Some here say Earthworks are too noisy but not only do I find this to be unimportant with a little bit of noise supression, it doesn't matter to you at all if you are just using it for rehearsal.

I really think you'd love a pair of Earthworks. It's worth noting that their "cheaper" models will do just fine - pretty much the only difference is that noise floor. Maybe a TC20 pair or something. If you can afford it though the QTC40 is a spectacular mic!

One thing, obviously you should know a pair of omnis are going to pickup the room sound. If you are recording in a practice room it's going to a lot different than a concert hall.

[Roland]

I would steer clear of all the mics you mentioned above as they all tend to be on the slightly bright side. If you need a flat sound Schoeps MK2's the standard version, KM100's with the AK31 capsule, possibly the new MKH 8020's from Sennheiser. I'm not a lover of the Adam's speakers, great to mix on, but not (IMHO) tonally the most accurate.

Regards


Roland

[andy_simpson]

Originally Posted by nody31

Hi what a great site, I’m not an engineer nor a technician so I hope I’m still welcome here.


- been reading through the postings for a couple of weeks now but unless I have missed
something I cant quite find the answers that I’m looking for - so can anyone help?

I am an operatic baritone, and for my sins have a big voice – and when I practice I have always
used recording to judge what others would be hearing (literally for every phrase that I practice).
I am not interested in producing a product i.e. a CD. Only obtaining a true representation of
what I am doing so that I can judge it.

To this end I have for the past 15 years used a portable Sony DAT recorder along with a Sony
ECM909A mic and headphones (which have the inevitable result of producing ringing ears).

However times have moved on and I am now trying to find a more advanced practice setup.

I have tried various digital recorders and have now invested in a Korg Mr-1000 1 bit recorder,
which I think suits my requirements very well. And am now trying out (without much real
success) various microphones and powered monitors.



I have three main queries -

1. The best microphones to capture what’s actually there (taking into account the size of my
voice).

2. How to avoid tampering with the sound i.e. how to avoid losing anything through compression
or processing.

3. The best powered monitors to show what’s actually there .i.e. monitors which do not lose
information at low levels – but which can take being wound up when needed and which will
offer a life like representation of what I am doing.

The problem I face is that if the sound I hear back is lacking or enhanced in anyway I will over
time alter what I am doing to adjust for this – and as I perform without a microphone I will
inevitably end up with a false perception of the work that I am producing.


I suspect that what I am looking for over all is probably not actually out there but the following
is where i am at present.


1.

I have been looking for a stereo matched pair of mic’s and have so far tried both the
AKG 414 IB-X LII which I felt added colour to the sound and the 414 B XLS which didn’t
seem to pick up all that was there. I have also tried the cheaper AKG 214s which I felt
were more realistic – remember I want to use them as a mirror for my work not to enhance
the voice in any way.

However I know there must be better mic’s out there – and have been reading on this site
about Earthworks and Schoeps mic’s like the QTC 40 or the CMC5's with MK4 the capsules.

Bearing in mind the size of my voice and the realism that I am after does anyone
consider either to be suitable, or are there any other suggestions.


2.

I am trying to avoid changing the sound in any way ( and if possible to do without compression)
– this is easy when I monitor with headphones however I would like a setup where I monitor
back through speakers.

I have tried various powered monitors but find that at low volume the clarity that I am judging
disappears – however if I turn the volume up at all so that the sound is detailed it only takes a high
note to occur in the recording - and I’m either in a position of blowing drivers or if the monitors
that I have tried have cutouts then they take effect and the sound cuts out..

I end up turning the volume up and down all the time to avoid this and not concentrating on what
I’m hearing…. or, I end up going back to my headphones. I suspect therefore I need to consider
compression or processing the sound in some way, but how do I achieve this without compromising
what I am trying to hear, and where in the chain of mic recorder and monitor would I use it.

The monitors I have tried so far are the Adam A7’s which I was in danger of blowing and the
P11 and P33 which kept cutting out.

Do you want to judge what others are hearing acoustically - how you sound at a concert performance - or how you might sound on a typical recording?

I'd guess, from your description of under-performing speakers, that you are talking about the full-scale reproduction of your voice - at performance levels - which you can use to assess your timbre, expression, etc?

This is a task that should not be underestimated.

Andy